Not help about a bike but help about a car

[dave_e-dp 0]

Hi All,

Hopefully someone will be able to help me/point me in the right direction. I own a 2002 Toyota Rav4 2.0 VVTI. A couple of weeks ago we were driving along when it juddered and the engine management light came on, this happened twice within about 10 minutes. The second time the engine management light started flashing, then all was ok and the engine management light stopped flashing but stayed on.
I had recently had a major service done and a lambda sensor changed by a local trusted garage, and bought myself one of those OBD II fault code readers you can pick up off ebay for about £40. When I got it home I plugged it in and read the code. Basically it was a misfire on cylinder 3. I reset the MIL and cleared the code to see if it happened again. After a couple of days it did, same again, misfire on cylinder 3, engine management light flashing, engine management light stopped flashing but stayed on. I had a root around on the net, one post said to change the suspected ignition coil (the pencil type that fit straight onto the spark plug) with one of the other 3 to see if the fault moves. I did, it did. I bought an ignition coil from a local motor factors, (Bluepoint is the make, apparently very good in pattern parts, unlike the suspect one which was unbranded). I fitted it and all seemed well, I was chuffed that I had saved a few quid on a diagnostics and labour at a garage.

A couple of days later we were driving and the MIL came back on, no flashing, just came on. I plugged in my code reader when I got home and the codes it gave me were:
P0420 Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)
P0430 Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 2)

Now I’m at a loss, surely the cat can’t knackered after four, possibly 5 misfires can it? Are they that delicate? I thought they were good for about 150,000 miles. Or am I just kidding myself and don’t want to look at the reality of a new cat costing me about £400 - £500? (yes they are that much for this year and model).
Any help/advise would be very much appreciated.

Cheers
Dave

[Neill 0]

Not sure how long it takes for it to happen but misfires are well documented causes off premature cat failure.( unburnt fuel burning in the monolith)
im not sure (not familiar with toyota) but it sounds as if your system has a lambda sensor before and after the cat it could be the after cat sensor playing up

not much I know but hth's

[Kenb 0]

Petrol Engine RAV4

Change HT LEAD No3 and plugs. Does this model use individual ignition coils? Why was the sensor changed. Now a leaking head gasket stands a chance of knackering the sensor thus engine light flashing/staying on, anti-freeze contamination. Its unlikely the cat is done in, unless its had a few bad experiences before you bought the vehicle. Yes individual ignition coil just read you post again. They fail regular, even more crap to follow as its likely the other coils will follow suit. £30 each?

[dave_e-dp 0]

@Kenb wrote:

Petrol Engine RAV4

Change HT LEAD No3 and plugs. Does this model use individual ignition coils? Why was the sensor changed. Now a leaking head gasket stands a chance of knackering the sensor thus engine light flashing/staying on, anti-freeze contamination. Its unlikely the cat is done in, unless its had a few bad experiences before you bought the vehicle. Yes individual ignition coil just read you post again. They fail regular, even more crap to follow as its likely the other coils will follow suit. £30 each?

Thanks for the replies, how do you use the multi quote thing? The lambda sensor was changed because the heating circuit was knackered. Within the last month, maybe 6 weeks I had a major service done by a garage I use all the time, so trust them. They never said anything about head gaskets on oil change, but I suppose it could have gone since. I'll have to give it all a good look over Thursday when I'm off work. It looks as it has been really well looked after, 1 owner from new, full Toyota service history from where it was bought. The only thing I can see is two of the ignition coils are genuine Toyota parts and two have no part numbers on them (one of the unbranded was suspect).

Cheers

Dave

[Davehutch-hutchs 0]

/t851-how-to-use-the-multi-quote

[dave_e-dp 0]

@Davehutch wrote:

/t851-how-to-use-the-multi-quote

Cheers Dave

Let the begin

[dave_e-dp 0]

Hi,
Thanks to all for the replies. I had a look this morning and there appears to be two inline cats on the exhaust manifold, one for cylinders 1&2 and one for cylinders 3&4, although it is very hard to tell because of all the shrouding around the exhaust manifold. Also I saw there appears to be 2 pre cat lambda sensors pre cat, one on top of the manifold for cylinders 1&2 and one on the side of the manifold by cylinders 3&4. Does this sound right to anyone? There also appears to be another cable going down past the cats and disappearing out of site behind the shrouding, maybe this could be sighted from underneath, I didn’t get that far.
Could there be a pre cat lambda sensor for cylinders 1&2, one for cylinders 3&4 and then a downstream/post cat lambda sensor? Also is there likely to be another cat further down the line or am I getting confused, I had read that the RAV after 2001/2002 (ish) had two cats.

[bladerunner 0]

Some time ago I was looking into buying a rav 4 so I did some research into reliability problems and I found out that one of the big problems with the petrol engine is exactly what you describe. The cause was usually one of the lambda sensors but the diagnostics wouldn't say which one. And yes the petrol rav does have four of them

[Kenb 0]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-RAV4-2-0-00-01-Catalytic-Converter-Cat-/200576422881?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2eb34953e1

Is this like your cat?

[lee1 1]

as already said it sounds like you have lamba sensors before and after the cat

hence bank 1/bank2 now you need to find out which is bank 1 and bank 2

try some toyota forums,to find which they are

[dave_e-dp 0]

@Kenb wrote:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-RAV4-2-0-00-01-Catalytic-Converter-Cat-/200576422881?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2eb34953e1

Is this like your cat?

Yep, that looks about right

[dave_e-dp 0]

Still at a loss with this. Turns out there are 2 inline cats and 4 lambda sensors. Had to bite the bullet today, took it to the garage I use for a diagnostics. All oxygen sensors were scanned and work properly and the car passed an emissions test proving the cat is working. They reset they erased the code and reset the EML and took it for a road drive. No EML, though it seems to be coming on after about 20 miles. Guess I'll have to keep an eye on it see what happens. Maybe I'll have to take it to Toyota ££££££. Thanks to all for their advise.

Cheers

Dave

[fr499y 0]

there was a old fix for the petrol rav 4.. i believe it was buy the 2L diesel instaid? Im sure there was instructions on the net how to bypass the error code. Also if a cat was gone it would most likely be the one at the front of the car but again, if the car is fine for a while then does it again, it can't be a cat... Again not sure but a high flowing cat can sort out the problems but it all comes down to money and if its worth spending out on it ( worth it to you, not saying the cars not worth spending money on! )

[Bezzer 0]

@fr499y wrote:

there was a old fix for the petrol rav 4.. i believe it was buy the 2L diesel instaid?

correct, We've got a 2.2 Rav4 never had a problem with it
On a serious note have a look on the Rav4 section of the Toyota owners sites, you'll find the answers there with a search or be able to ask the questions. just for your info if you didn't know you've got a Rav 4.2 model just so you look up the right model info
http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?s=82d610540c8c3f608b7bb922614e1699&showforum=79

[darkember 0]

Check what type of high tension ignition system you have got. Each cylinder may have its own coil one of those may be failing. Had this happen on my volvo.

[dave_e-dp 0]

Thanks again for the replies, I have already changed a faulty ignition coil, I had a misfire code a few days before I started getting the P0420/P0430 codes. I've only started getting these cat codes after changing the faulty ignition coil.

I'm at a loss with this. Turns out there are 2 inline cats and 4 lambda sensors. Had to bite the bullet today, took it to the garage I use for a diagnostics. All oxygen sensors were scanned and work properly and the car passed an emissions test proving the cat is working. They reset they erased the code and reset the EML and took it for a road drive. No EML, though it seems to be coming on after about 20 miles. Guess I'll have to keep an eye on it see what happens. Maybe I'll have to take it to Toyota ££££££. Thanks to all for their advise.



Cheers

Dave