Here is one for Trebor and others in the know.

[always1more 0]

Bit of a long story so I'll narrow it down.

Our Emma's car is burning oil at a rate of a 1ltr per week. I've been on the Rover MG ZR forum to find out how I can sort it as she has had no end of problems with this car since she bought it.

Known for head gasket failure which did happen last year also when she bought the car 4 years ago in the 1st week the cambelt snapped and I think her engine was sorted for around £500

The car is in super condition bodywise and the car pulls..starts as it should but there is blue smoke when she starts up.

So far I've narrowed it down to the Valve Seals as there is post after post on this on the Rover Forum, ohh and incidently I've asked them on there a few weeks back but nobody can be arsed to answer my question.



Right this is where I'm getting at....I've been reading shitloads on Google and I've stumbled across a post from a mechanic and he goe's on to tell you that changing these Valve seals can be done without taking the head off.

He say's if you wizz a plug out and use a rope you can put this down the spark plug hole and get the 1st piston to TDC and with the pressure from the piston will keep the valve pressed up so there is no need to strip down. Also he rekons you can use a compressor and blow air into the cylinder which will also hold the valve were it should be without dropping into the cylinder.

But if one happens to fall in you then need to take the head off.

I don't have enough time to strip it as she needs the car for work. I'm just wandering if it is possible to do the way I said above or check the link below

There is also stuff on the market "Valve conditioner" which expands the seals but I think it's only temporary.

Read the last part http://www.aa1car.com/library/oil_consumption.htm

[trebor4460 0]

As you have a compresion tester tim do a wet and dry compression test, this will let you know if it is in fact the valve stems and not the piston oil rings, as a rule of if itmwas the stems she would smoke at first on start up but then clear up.

Have heard of doing stem seals with head insitu but never seen it done, might be worth a try.

[always1more 0]

Many thanks Rob

Yeah hopefully tomorrow evening when she gets home I'll get the compression tester to verify the problem for sure.

Our Emma say's when the car is warmed up and on the motorway she say there is no smoke.

I'm made up with the latter Rob, might be worth a go then like you say if it is them

Thanks Rob

[trebor4460 0]

You might find this link interesting tim,
http://board.tercelonline.com/viewthread.php?tid=28724#pid322212

[Bezzer 0]

Sounds very much like stem seals, I did the stem seals on an XR3I Escort some years back witohut removing the head, it was that common on the CVH engine you could buy a cheap aftermarket "special tool" that held and compressed the valve and spring and let you do it no problem. Dunno if there might be something similar available for the Rover but it's a common enough engine for there to be one. I've still got the Escort tool but wouldn't think it will be of use on any other engine,with the size of thread, slotting and reach etc.

[bedfordbiker 0]

Gah I have a similar problem on my bike

It gets through a litre of oil every 2 weeks, and I'm getting a fair amount of smoke coming out of the exhaust every time I roll off the throttle.

I put it down to the valve seals too, but after replacing them nothing has really changed.

I'm still trying to rack my brain for any other possible causes

[Bezzer 0]

That seems more rings/valves than stem seals. Stem seals don't usually get that bad as you first notice the problem only when you start up because oil has gradually seeped past the seals while the bike has been standing and burns off when you start up. Not that much gets through as you're running so you wouldn't notice it every time you roll off. You need a leakdown test to see whats what.

[always1more 0]

Hey I'm glad I asked here now, thanks Rob for the link and Bezzer thanks for the write up m8, yeah it's common on these so I've read. Just feel down as the Daughter has had bad luck with her motor. I'm gonna take a deeper look later if she gets home handy


Thanks m8's

[always1more 0]

Update 13.00hrs 22nd April.

Right here we go,

Took the cover off the engine so I could access the Spark Plug.

Removed plug 1 looked ok {grey} When I removed number 2 plug it was full of fresh oil up the thread and also the center bit where the spark is is beginning to crumble so it's new plugs.

Number 3 plug was the same as number 1 and not too bad.

Number 4 was the same as number 2 plug but where the spark comes out that was ok too.

Compression test as follows.

Warmed the engine up and this was the 1st test dry.

No1 = 220 psi
No2 = 210 psi
No3 = 200 psi
No4 = 210 psi

Added a drop of oil to seal the piston rings.

No1 = 230 psi
No2 = 215 psi
No3 = 225 psi
No4 = 215 psi

Is this deffo pointing to the Valve Stem Seals then ?

Ohh and her HT leads will have to be replaced as they wont push onto the top of the plugs anymore but that's minor detail.

All the best on Good Friday m8's

[Bezzer 0]

Figures don't seem too bad, fairly together so there's no obvious pointer to one being particulalrly suspect. You can't say "definite" but it is pointing towards the stem seals.
Couldn't remember for the life of me what the XR3 head looked like so had to look at the tool instructions to jolt my memory It had rockerarms from the "hidden" cam so you just removed them, put 1&4 to TDC so the valves wouldn't drop right into the bore then used the tool to compress the valve spring, remove the collets undo to slacken and remove the spring then you could get straight at the stem seals,put new one in, use the tool again to replace the spring, repeat for the other 3 then put 2&3 to TDC and do the same for the other 4. You didn't have to take any special precautions to keep the valve up tight in it's seat or anything just make sure the pistons were up to stop it dropping all the way inside.
There is a general tool that fits various engines you can buy to do them without removing the head but it goes on about using compressed air to keep the valves up, the rope trick would also work just depends what configuration your head is I suppose as to how hard, simple rocker arm removal to give access or or will you have to remove cams etc.
http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?id=20&method=mViewProduct&productid=8807

[trebor4460 0]

Depends on what the book says the compression should be, iff the figures you got are within the books tolerances then the motor seems pretty sound.

You did get an icrease in compresion when you used oil, 5 % on average and over 10% on number 3, this indicates some wear in the rings, although if the compression figures are in the manufacturers specs, then i wouldnt be too worried.

To reiterate, if the figures are low to the manufacturers specs,, and if you had no difference when adding oil then stem seals would be suspect,
If after adding a drop of oil to the cylinders the compression comes up then its indicating wear in the rings/bores.

A gud indication of valve seal wear is when the engine is hot and then turned off and left, when you go back, start her, you get a puff of oil but it then clears when you have driven off,

Bore ring wear will show when you boot her and you get a cloud of oil, go down a hill on overrun and then boot her, again a cloud of oil.


If i was you tim i would sort the plugs, leads, first, then make sure the oil leval is correct and monitor the leval and any smoke coming out of the zorst for about 500 mls and take it from there.

[Neill 0]

The compression figures could be misleading
if the compression rings are ok you would get good readings and if the scraper rings are shot it could burn oil and still give reasonable compression
your description of the two plugs points to a ring problem
when the engine is hot stand behind the car and have your daughter
rev it hard if you get loads of blue smoke from a very hot engine it is unlikely that stem seals will cure it

Hmm shoud have read trebors post first

[always1more 0]

Fookin ell not what I wanted to read fellas but there you go

We have no manual but I asked what the figure should be on the Rover forum and the reply was ......

Minimum pressure 10.3 bar
Maximum variation between cylinders 1.4 bar

The usual oil burning problem with a K series is the valve stem oil
seals. The bores and pistons are pretty bomb proof unless they have been
abused by over heating.

I sent her to Halfrauds earlier today she bought new plugs but they didn't have HT Leads which hers are shagged cpl of cracks and now won't push onto the plugs so she fires up on 2 or 3 lol.

The flippin smoke that came out of it for 5 minutes after putting oil down the plug chamber, smoked the Street out haha.

Partco tomorrow and purchase these funnt leads...you have 2 coils which each one has 2 plug leads was going to take a piccy but my m8 came round so the job stopped.

I've taken some pics of a fecked plug and the condition of the others.

Thanks Rob..Neill...and Bezzer, just gonna upload some pics

[always1more 0]

The plug starting from the left is plug 1

[trebor4460 0]

the ash deposits on two of them plugs confirm exsessive oil been burning in the chamber,
Fit the new plugs and leads and play it by ear, monitor the plug colour and exhaust smoke, might very well be worth doing the seals if this is a weak point on the model, u aint got much to loose and just might cure the problem.

[always1more 0]

Thanks Rob, yeah the seals are £12 for 16 so think I'll get them replaced.

Just off out of Town to pick up a Haynes for her car as our local Halfrauds has sold out of her model.

You won't believe the fun i've had today...got my bike MOT'd then decided to go Partco and another motor factors for new leads for her. 2 of them no probs but the ones that are fixed to the two coils they said I need to purchase 2 new coils as the cap don't come off so I came home took the coil in that sits onto of number two plug and pulled the rubber sleeve of. All I need is a new spring and the top clip that fits onto the spark plug, they said nope we don't sell them you have to buy 2 new coils with the two caps supplied at £55 + vat.

Thought sod that, went back to halfrauds and bought 2 standard HT leads and took the ends off and stuck them on the end of her old ones and she's fired up no problem, and they cost us £3.50

[trebor4460 0]

result there Tim, bit of improvisation every time.

[always1more 0]

@trebor4460 wrote:

result there Tim, bit of improvisation every time.

Thanks Rob,


Just been for a blast to pick the manual up, should help me loads now m8, really wanting to sort this for our Emma, she is going to order the valve stem seals and I think she said she is off next week for 4 days so that should give me a bit of time to work on it as I've never done these before

PS....Just recorded my 16 mile round trip, passing the cages here and there as it's chokka here with the nice weather. Will try and get one uploaded shortly

[always1more 0]

Rob do you think m8 if it's worth us getting this off ebay to help or would I be ok with deep sockets ?

260772507979

Or the one that was posted earlier on in this thread.

[trebor4460 0]

Hsve never done a set of seals Tim but that kit looks preety gud for £20
And yep, i bet the roads were choka going into Southport... Bloody tourists, lol.

[always1more 0]

Ok m8 fair comment

See how it pans out when I take the cover off and inspect will have a better idea then

Bloody tourists is right m8...most of them scousers lol