Transcending Society With God's Love

[Vile 0]

((I always put this disclaimer before advice I give publicly... I write this for myself as much as everyone else. I can be a hypocrite just as much as the people I point fingers at, which is why I post things like this so that someone can redirect me to my own advice so I can verbally kick my own rump from the past to correct my future.))

Alright, I'm generally called a Goth. I like dressing in the fun blacks, vinyl and fishnets when I can go out (even to Church sometimes). I do not do so in order to draw attention, nor do I do so in scantly clad items; I'm just wearing my sackcloth like I was told I was going to do in Revelations. Note, that I do not do so all the time as a lot of the Gothic attire requires special cleaning which I am too lazy and poor to do right now (I believe if you are going to dress as a subculture, you do it RIGHT). I don't even wear anything blasphemous. Everything I wear has symbolic meaning for the Bible.

I think my friends at Leper said it best; "Goth is not a religion, it's an Art Form".

Now my question is; if every tongue and every nation call him "Lord", we are going to have all sorts of cultures which we don't really see as 'kosher" turning to Christ without dressing in three-piece suits or Easter Dresses... are we ready to accept the fact that God's love transcends feeble concepts such as society?

There is a fine line between worshiping God and worshiping the way you worship him. Gothic ministries can be JUST as non-accepting of "normal" people as normal people are of the Gothic community. That is a religious bunch of B.S. just as bad as the Phelps Church (but I'm not going to go there). How deeply are we worshiping our ways as much as we worship God? I made a startling realization about how much I didn't care about saving people. I wanted a few select people who I saw potential in to join me in heaven and if everyone else did, that was their own decision. Now, at the same time, I have the stark realization that I can't save everyone. If that was the case, then there wouldn't be a fire for the harvest. In the end, in the words of King Baldwin from Kingdom of Heaven; "... your soul is in your own keeping alone".

Now, one has to keep in mind the fine line between "style" and "action" in subcultures. If someone is required to perform sin in order to be a part of a subculture, then we do have a right to say that it is wrong but love the people anyway. There are some which might infer the fact that they have to sin (such as Rave with drugs and Gangsta for committing crime), but there are those who just like the style and don't do such things. It is also the fine line between being metro and being gay. I have a couple of friends who are men of God who dress and act a certain way which make people question their spiritual walk, but are quite straight. They get so much hell from their Church because they like musicals or go to a tanning salon, or want to become a hair dresser. We can't assume someone is sinning because of the way they dress. Most teenage girls in this day and age don't realize they are dressing like hookers. Don't assume that they are living that lifestyle and they have problems about it. Talk with them and get to know them first before stepping in and having a well-meaning talk with them when all you are doing is insulting them. Now, if it's to talk about them about how their revealing clothing might be inadvertantly tempting some of the other members of the congregation, then you have a sin to talk about and I have nothing against that. Fishnet stockings and daisy dukes aren't appropriate for a Church.

Now, when I do dress Goth, I sit in the back because I am not the main attraction at a worship service. I'll wear my skater pants without the chains because they make too much noise. I do have consideration for a service because I want to show the truth about "every tongue and every nation". Art is a form of communication, and many styles can glorify Him. I have reasons for what I do. I'm not eye-candy, but I am a bold statement. I want to see more of "my kind" sitting with me, and that's not going to happen until I make people uncomfortable enough at Church long enough to get used to it.

So what are you doing to promote people that you really don't want to see in Church? What type of people would you hate to sit next to in Church or make you so uncomfortable with? These are the people you must tend to. Myself? It's the people who adopt the "Christian Society". You know... the people who put the bumper stickers and Ithicus' on their cars and verbally abuse their kids at home. The ones who are more than willing to picket a gay bar to proclaim how wrong homosexuality is when their daughter is having sex with every boy on the high school football team (sexual immortality is sexual immorality, no matter who you do it with). If I was still my earthly self, I would be no better than some of the Gothic ministries I've been at who are more than willing to bring in Voltaire for a few extra dollars (I admit I like some of Voltaire's work, but some of his comedy songs are WAY too raunchy to be played in a sanctuary), and downright refuse the help of "normal" Churches to help them no matter how much in debt they are.

I don't pull punches. If you think I'm too much, then ban my account. This is reality of the world. What are we as a Church going to do about it?

Vile

[lola21st 2]

Vile -

Thanks for your "iron sharpening iron" post...

And don't pull punches, we need exhortations to keep us grounded in Christ and not get too full of ourselves into thinking that we're so wonderfully Christian...this is how we grow...when we think that we're "there" that's when we're of no use to Christ and are ripe for the enemy to get a foothold - "Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." - 1Corinthians 10:12. My only request is that you never forget who you are in Christ - be direct and do so with the love of Christ - be respectful. You've not been disrespectful and you've not done anything that would cause anyone to ban your account - provocative thought/discussion is really welcome. Where we draw the line is with personal attacks, belittling, etc. - anything that will give Satan an entry in this community. What we try to strive for is written in Ephesians 4:29-5:2:

"4:29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
5:1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma."

That's not to say we don't fall short at times but it is the standard to which we aim...


Anyway, it is this same type of hypocrisy that in part kept me from the church in my younger years...people who played the role in church but as soon as they entered the parking lot were back in the world and were some of the world's worst offenders. Even when I started attending church and joined a church, I became disillusioned because I couldn't understand how these people upon hearing the Word, were still so unhappy. What they were happy about is that they fulfilled their obligation to attend church, but they didn't know the Lord. Sure, they knew the Word, but the Word wasn't in them. And sure Jesus was their savior but He wasn't Lord of their lives. So after a few years, I left that church because I was led to another (short version).

In one sense I'm blessed. My church is Heaven on earth. I don't mean to sound self-righteous or prideful when I say that but that is really what visitors often say when they come to my church because it is the most diverse church body I've ever seen or been a part of. Every race/ethnicity is represented, people from every part of the socio-economic spectrum attend, all educational levels, all ages, etc. And yes, we have goth, punk, gangsta's, sk8ters, techno geek, jocks, people whose bodies is a canvas, bikers, etc., both real and wannabees...We know the Holy Spirit does move there, because man couldn't create this fellowship on his own..this is a God thing...

From what I've observed, there is genuine fellowship and caring for one another, it's not just different groups of people going to the same church but keeping to themselves. A friend of mine recently was having problems with his car and needed transportation to take care of his son and get to/from work, church, etc. Another member heard his story and was led by the Holy Spirit to give him her van, a 2000 Toyota Sienna...permanently. He had just taken the van to the DMV to change the registration when he told me the story.

But this isn't really what your post is about. I mean it is on one level, but I think your exhortation is focused on the individual - so let me put myself on the hot seat...what am I doing to promote people that I don't really want to see in church? I want to see everyone in church, it's your next question that really convicted me - what type of people would I hate to sit next to in church? I won't say what type but the fact that there is a type convicts me that it's time to do a check up from the neck up...

I'm going to pray about this today and carry it out tomorrow at church. When I go into the sanctuary to find a seat, I'm going to find that type of person and sit next to them...and see what the Holy Spirit does in that situation...it's a small step but the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

[dreamster 0]

um 2 put it simply God looks on the heart not the outer man,,i think if we all get on with the job at hand,and not focus on side issues,thenwe'll all be better off..in the end all our works will go thru the fire...wat is not stubble/straw will remain..,jesus is the head of the church we all shood be takin our instructions frm him,,,that wood sort many things out,, :cute: :cute: D

[Vile 0]

I've been kicked out of two ministries for telling people like it Biblically is. Thusly, I always put the disclaimer in front of each of my "Theological Sessions" for those who don't like it straight up.

You guys have been good to me thus far.