Bike training or lack of!!

[Guest Guest]

'm beginning to get a bit fed up with this tbh.

I'm doing extra training with the bike and have done so for a while now (ROSPA) now with Rospa and IAM etc etc. You are taught to position yourself on the road to set up corners, best view etc.

Well I'm sick of setting myself up for a corner, i.e far left for a right hander, only to have some untrained rider come up on my right because they think I've moved over for them or this is the position they use for a Right hand bend. This then makes moving out to the right for my left hander dangerous. I had a bloke do this today with a pillion in a 30 zone, come up on my right and then proceed to overtake a car, in a 30 and speed off.

I'm really getting pissed off with riders who think they know it all as in the " I don't need training, I've been riding for yrs and never had an accident" Well you may not have but you might of fecking caused a few.

I think everyone if they get the chance should try and get on a bike safe or similar, its amazing what you can learn.

I'll also add that I had the same with a car driver up my arse on the A4 doing the same today.

I'd just like, just once to go out for a ride and not have someone, cut me up, overtake dangerously and not act like a knob!!

There you are, I feel better now!!

Just remember though, if someone moves to the left its not necessarily to allow you to go past they might just be moving into the correct road position for the next bend.

Oh and getting a copy of "The police motorbike handbook, Roadcraft" doesn't hurt anyone!!

[Chadatious 0]

wear a high vis. may think your the plod on a white bike lol.

and i agree rose.

i know its different but i went right abit for a clear view f a left corner for a knee down atttempt and bike undertok me, and basically cliped my helmet!

i know im no bettery trying knee down but what he did nearly knocked me off, and dunno where he came from!

[Guest Guest]

Same principle Chad, you move to the right for a left hander. It gives you more space to manover if you have gone in at the wrong speed. Undertaking is just as bad. Glad you where lucky that day

[Chadatious 0]

yeh you too rose.

like on way to oakdene cafe. on motorway an sv650 was going between cars on motorway at 100mph.

[RichardH 0]

I also take that line after doing a bikesafe course but having said that, it's not the "correct" way it's just someones opinion of a safer way.

[steph42 0]

hi Rose,
pop along to the local police station, if they have motorcycle enforcement officers based there, ask for 1 to give you a rider assesment its a free service they offer.i know a few people who've done this and its helped they've said ,you get an honest evaluation of your riding and tips/ advice on how to improve. it also changed some of their opinions of motorcycle cops...they aint all bad


good luck

[Chadatious 0]

i like bike cops as long as they dont pull me

[Guest Guest]

@steph42 wrote:

hi Rose,
pop along to the local police station, if they have motorcycle enforcement officers based there, ask for 1 to give you a rider assesment its a free service they offer.i know a few people who've done this and its helped they've said ,you get an honest evaluation of your riding and tips/ advice on how to improve. it also changed some of their opinions of motorcycle cops...they aint all bad


good luck

Last bike safe I did, was told my riding was that good the copper would lend me his bike!!

You haven't understood the posting, read it again!! LOL

[steph42 0]

Sorry I'm stooopid i've just re'read you post

[Guest Guest]

Please don't think I'm so far up my own arse I think I'm perfect, cause I dont'.

Which is why I'm doing Rospa and I'll never be good enough in my own mind.

[steph42 0]

I'm happy to admit i aint the perfect rider, but it dsnt really matter how good you are, im affraid the number of t**t car drivers with no disregard for other road users will forever be on the increase

[Macie_UK 0]

Rose wrote:

Well I'm sick of setting myself up for a corner, i.e far left for a right hander, only to have some untrained rider come up on my right because they think I've moved over for them or this is the position they use for a Right hand bend.

How do you know they were untrained? There is more than one 'right line' depending on the opinion of the trainer. Not saying that they were not being a plank, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they were untrained or a know-it-all.

Rose wrote:

I'd just like, just once to go out for a ride and not have someone, cut me up, overtake dangerously and not act like a knob!!

The problem with the public highway is the 'public' bit.

@steph42 wrote:

I'm happy to admit i aint the perfect rider, but it doesn't really matter how good you are,

I disagree to some extent - all the training and skill in the world won't help much if a Scania ploughs through a contraflow into you, or a speeding car comes over a hump back bridge on your side of the road and takes you out, *but* as the majority of advanced training is focused on observation, planning and awareness it helps you to avoid, or at least react better to a lot of 'near-miss' situations.

Nowt wrong with trying to stack the odds in your favour a little bit

[2wheels 0]

Just my untrained/ naive opinion but if positioning yourself too far to one side is causing people to misread your riding Is it therefore safer to maintain a normal riding position so as no to confuse other people. If you dont know the road then maybe stuck to a safer more comfortable speed rather than altering your road positioning for a "better view" You say your sick of it so I assume it's happening regularly?

I was taught "space is safe" ie ride fiestas the middle
Of your lane or just right of. And your average car driver who has no experience of bikes is probably used to mopeds riding in the gutter as you see so many do these days.

I appreciate I appear to be going against what these riding schools are teaching but that's just my observation from what your saying. Feel free to criticise/correct me.

[yankeedoodle 0]

think im with 2wheels on this one

doesnt matter how "right" something might be, if its causing you problems then dont do it

in alot of normal road riding situations, if you are sticking to the speed limit, then you dont need to be anywhere near the opposite side of the bend

[Guest Guest]

Pick up a copy of Road Craft and your understand a bit better about the positioning for corners. Of course I ride safely for the road conditions etc etc.

If your to the left for a right hander, it gives you more SAFE room for mistakes should you make them. There are less chances of you going over the other side of the line, should you have made a mistake.

I'm sorry but I'm having extra training because I want to improve my riding skills, safety and knowledge. I try to do this whenever I'm riding. I was trying to explain that no matter how much I do this there is always some other person who for their own reason, does not keep a safe distance, feels they have to prove a point etc etc.

Its easy to try and say "I'm in the wrong" but I'm not, it doesn't just happen to me, it happens to hubby as well.

[Guest Guest]

@yankeedoodle wrote:

think im with 2wheels on this one

doesnt matter how "right" something might be, if its causing you problems then dont do it

in alot of normal road riding situations, if you are sticking to the speed limit, then you dont need to be anywhere near the opposite side of the bend

Obviously all the police trained, Rospa riders have it wrong because if you can't see round the bend your in the wrong position, or as your trained, slow down to a safe speed for the situation.

Get copy of road craft from the libary or try going on a bike safe course. The one at Gaydon is excellent and the trainers are Rospa advanced and Police riders.

As I said before a lot of people think just because they have never been in an accident makes them a good rider, especially those riding for a long time. It doesn't mean that they may have not caused other riders to crash, or inconvienience them in some way for riding without "due care and attention"

I'm not getting into a willy waving argument. The other rider was in the wrong and should have known better, especially with a pillion on board as it wasnt' just his life.

[smilinjack 0]

I think it's fair to say there are a good few knobs on the road, and a lot of them ride motorbikes. I'd suggest Rose that your mirror is your friend here-no right & wrong, just let the asswipes by to wreak carnage well away from you.
As for road positioning, visibility is most certainly improved by using all of the road, but you will leave yourself more vulnerable to running out of road if taken to the extreme. I took up a good position centre of road to enter a left hand turn some years ago, only to find a waste paper trailer in my way. He'd crossed the white line. I was unable to turn futher in time, so I clipped him with my pannier, down I went. Written off bike, broken leg. It's not that long since the IAM was advising actually crossing onto the "wrong" side of the road to improve observation distance. but I'd say there's more to roadcraft than just being able to see a long way.

[tubthumper 0]

@yankeedoodle wrote:

think im with 2wheels on this one

doesnt matter how "right" something might be, if its causing you problems then dont do it

in alot of normal road riding situations, if you are sticking to the speed limit, then you dont need to be anywhere near the opposite side of the bend

I would agree with this also. With the amount of white van men hooning round the corner clipping the central white line, theres no way i would take a left hander near the centre of the road just to 'get the veiw'. There are certain turns that you can't see round regardless of road position aswell (such as ones bordered by hedgerows, etc.).

My old man, who's a Police grade 1 pursuit driver, taught me a method of reading the apex of the bend. As you approach a corner, the road will form an 'arrow head'. If the point of that arrowhead is travelling away from you, you are approacing at below the max speed for the corner. If it travels towards you, then slow down.

Of course this isn't fool proof either, such as if the bend tightens mid-turn. As with most things, there isn't a 'right or wrong' it's a case of different drums and different drummers.

[Guest Guest]

Yes, but the point is you can move over from the right to the left. By having your view you can see the where the van driver is.

I think my explanation must not be very good.

I'll put it this way then, if you where riding on the left, would you expect another motorbike to come up to your right and ride paralel with you? forcing you to move?

I'm not going to bother justifying myself anymore. I ride for the road conditions etc etc.

Roadcraft as I've said explains a lot of what I'm trying to say.

[BanditMike 0]

I see the point that Rose is trying to make here, and do agree with her. The problem is, I think, we're crediting people with a concern for their own, and others, safety that they don't have.

Just after I passed my test I took a left hander, and had a guy overtake me on the bend!? Could I have been going faster? Possibly, but does that give him the right to overtake me on the bend?

Out with my Dad, son and brother in law. 5 lads go past us (on the Helmesley Road for those that know), the last one with a pillion. They passed all of us, with solid whites on the road at intervals, the last one nearly cutting my Dad up because of an oncoming car. Why? Why not drop in behind my Dad and overtake when safe?

The last one, recently. Two lads behind me, having passed through a village (Bedale for those that know). They then passed me, along with their two friends. Where the other two came from I don't know. They then overtook all of us, plus the intervening traffic, against some blind right hand bends. Two of the four with pillions. Why do it? Why not wait until it's safe?

That's three examples that come immediately to mind. I'm in the fortunate position of learning to ride with my Dad, once I'd passed my test. My Dad has been riding about 40 years, as well as having done his IAM in recent years. It means that as I've followed him I've been able to follow his road position. I've also done as "Assessed Ride" with Cleveland Police and been told my riding is fine. I'm not bragging as I know I'm not a "perfect" rider and still have a lot to learn, but feel that I ride within my abilities and with regard to others. Can any of these people say the same?

[tubthumper 0]

Hi Mike, nice Bandit!

Your examples made for interesting reading. However, I have completed no Advanced training and wouldn't do anyhthing as stupid as you've experienced.

I experience even more stupid things that other road users do when i'm out on my push bike - so many people think it's OK to overtake on blind bends and summits!

I just think it's genuine common sense that stops people driving like idiots - not advanced training. Sadly, most motorists seem to have neither...

[BanditMike 0]

Seems to be the case, unfortunately. As I said, Roses points are valid, as are other peoples. All of us can only speak about what we find. A lot of my friends aren't bike fans, too many idiots ride them, but they also admit that a lot of car drivers are the same. We end up agreeing that both are as bad.

As an example. I went to the Rusty Nuts bike rally on Saturday and completed the main stretch, down high speed A roads without too much trouble. Nearly got wiped out by a guy at a set of lights. On red, so I filtered down the outside of the traffic. With no indication he moved across into the right turn lane, missing me by about 18-24". Then he wonders what I'm getting irate about!?!!

And so it goes on, sadly .....

[RichardH 0]

Surely that's the whole point, we all know that idiots exist and it's in our own interest to A. try to anticipate them and B. allow for them in our driving.
I know the last point is controversial but they are idiots and wont and dont give a toss, so its up to us.

[Guest Guest]

Yeah but at the end of the day there really does come a point, when you do get sick of altering your riding to accommodate these idiots.

I guess eventually they will kill themselves off sooner and hopefully not take a responsible driver out at the same time.

Todays ride out, sports rider came out of no where ( i check about every 10 secs rear mirror) to overtake, Gordon, me, and two other riders in front of us on a white line. Its guys like him that give decent riders a bad name.

[BanditMike 0]

Rose wrote:

Yeah but at the end of the day there really does come a point, when you do get sick of altering your riding to accommodate these idiots.

I guess eventually they will kill themselves off sooner and hopefully not take a responsible driver out at the same time.

Todays ride out, sports rider came out of no where ( i check about every 10 secs rear mirror) to overtake, Gordon, me, and two other riders in front of us on a white line. Its guys like him that give decent riders a bad name.

I agree Rose, see the points I made above. I see what Itchy is saying about anticipation and again, I agree. But how can you anticipate what some idiot who's too busy talking to his wife, or changing his CD, is going to do? Also, if a guy is intent on getting somewhere at 100mph on his new Blade, what chance do you have?

In the end all we can do is the old cliche, "minimise the exposure to danger". Riding bikes, like driving, is dangerous. Minimise the risk. All the anticipation in the world won't foresee a complete driving a car or riding a bike.

[Guest Guest]

I know Mike, I agree with everything you've writen..

[2wheels 0]

I guess when I go out I rely on instinct quite a bit. I don't think too much as daft as that sounds. I do use a lot of the road if not all but only in certain situations. My mate is always thinking too much about his riding and if he makes the tiniest mistake it ruins his ride. There is no strict logic to riding imo every corner is different and there are too many variables to consider.

[tubthumper 0]

Although I can be overly self-critical at times aswell