Bible Study: The Wait Between the Dream/Vision/Impartation and the Interpretation & Application

[RnestseekR 0]

Hi Friends. As I was reading my bible this morning I came across this story. While it is a story I was already familiar with, I was struck by the time between when God revealed information to Samuel, a "seer", and when Samuel actually had the details and full understanding of what God had told him. I thought about how many times we, as a forum, have asked, "When will God make this clear to me? When will give me understanding? When will the events of my dream or vision be clearly revealed to me as interpretation?"

So, here's an Old Testament story to sink you teeth into.

Biblical text: I Samuel 9:15 - 27.

Context: This chapter is our first introduction to Saul. This is before he has been annointed or crowned King of the Isrealites. In the immediate verses prior, Saul has lost three of his father's donkeys, so he takes a servent and sets out to look for them. They traveled quite a ways looking for the donkeys without any success. He tells his servent they should turn back because others will start looking for them instead of the donkeys. The servent says, We're near a town where a prophet of God is. Let's go ask him where the donkeys are." As they go up to the town, the prophet, Samuel, is actually on his way out to meet them.

vs. 15: "Now the day before Saul came, the Lord had revealed this to Samuel: 'About this time tomorrow I will send you a man from the land of Benjamin. Annoint him leader over my people Israel. . ."

vs. 17: "When Samuel caught sight of Saul, the Lord said to him, 'This is the man I spoke to you about; he will govern my people."

1.) Was Samuel given all the information he needed in verse 15? At point in time was Samuel given more specifics about implementing God's plan? (In other words, are you grasping that Samuel was given an initial revelation or impartation, but the specifics and the direction to act came later???) Do you think Samuel fully understood everything the Lord imparted to him the first time? Even when he got into the actual situation and was being approached by the Benjamite as the Lord told him would happen, why did Samuel need a second word from the Lord?

2.) What impresses you about how Samuel acted knowing only bits and peices after the first time the Lord spoke to him?

3.) What do you learn about the character of God from this passage? Do you believe that God acts the same way even today?

4.) How can you personally apply the lessons from this passage to your life or your dreams and visions?

[lola21st 2]

RnestseekR, thanks for posting this study!! I will attempt to join in, I look forward to read others' comments as well!

1) Samuel wasn't given the next piece of knowledge/instuctions until it was time for him to act. While I don't think he fully understood everything, he acted on that which he did know, i.e., he prepared a dinner in Saul's honor - he invited 30 people and held the place of honor for Saul with meat set apart specifically for him.

2) At first when I read the question, I didn't know what you meant when you said why did Samuel need a second word...I didn't get the sense that Samuel sought this word. But I realize that it was for confirmation that this man was indeed the man He was speaking of, again so that Samuel knew he could now act. And perhaps that's one lesson here is that we shouldn't act until we get the word from the Lord specifically to act.

3) God will give us what we need to know when we need to know it, we just have to trust Him that He really will give us knowledge, that He won't forget us. Most definitely He is the same today!

4) What resonated for me was that this is the second time in the last 24 hours that I've been reminded that when we dream, we're to act when we get a word from God. I feel compelled to review my dreams to see if I've missed something that I should be acting on....

Thanks for this lesson, keep them coming! God Bless!

[Cholette 0]

Ohhh...let me go read and I will come back and join in...I love stuff like this!!!

[RnestseekR 0]

Lola 21st: Thanks so interested what you took away from this lesson, because what I took away was that there was some time (24 hours) between the first revelation and the second, which contained the details. I get anxious and want to know RIGHT NOW the details, but sometimes God has us wait. But as I am reflecting on what you have said, you are giht, God gave Samuel a little bit, saw what he did with that knowledge, and then gave him the rest.

I just loved this story when I read it (and others like it) because I love seeing how God interacts with us. And it's different for each one of us, not because He acts differently, but because we are each different.

Thanks for posting. I enjoyed your insight.

[lola21st 2]

I did notice that Samuel got the 2nd revelation in 24 hrs but I thought he was blessed! I would LOVE to get the revelation I'm seeking on some matters in 24 hrs! Then when I think about the fact that a day in the Lord can be like hundreds of years for man...ok, let's not go down that path!

But you said something interesting:

"But as I am reflecting on what you have said, you are giht, God gave Samuel a little bit, saw what he did with that knowledge, and then gave him the rest."

Oooh. You touched on an interesting point. What if Samuel hadn't made preparations, would God have still given him the second word? (Ok, unfair question since we won't really know the answer until we're in Heaven, if then.) Does God wait until we act on a word before He gives us the next word? Or will he said a "reminder" word in order to get us to act?

[Guest Guest]

HOW DAVID LEARNED THE LESSON - WAIT FOR GOD!
It is recorded in 1 Samuel 15.22, "And Samuel said, 'Hath the Lord
as great delight in Burnt Offerings and Sacrifices, as in obeying the
voice of the Lord? Behold it is better to obey than to sacrifice, and
to hearken than the fat of rams. Because thou hast rejected the Word of
the Lord, He hath rejected thee from being king.'" David knew of this
event, and what had happened in Saul's case. Saul could not wait for
God. He had been commanded to wait until Samuel, God's prophet and
priest, should come to make the sacrifice. Saul, flushed with victory,
DID IT HIMSELF. That was his undoing. He had encroached into the
Priestly Office. This may seem quite a small thing until we consider
its implications. Saul had sat among the prophets and prophesied; he
had been anointed king; now he took on himself the office of priest,
because he could not wait for God. Thus he intruded into the triple
office which was reserved for another. Christ is our Prophet, Priest
and King. No one else can fully fulfil His offices. David had learned a
lesson from the man whose place he was to fill. On two occasions he had
the opportunity of slaying Saul and gaining the office of king, for
which God had anointed him. But he was prepared to wait for God's time.
"Waiting - I waited for the Lord!" The revelation of what happens if
you don't wait for God made David all the more determined to wait for
God.

So he passed through the hill country of Ephraim and through the area around Shalisha, but they did not find them. They went on into the district of Shaalim, but the donkeys were not there. Then he passed through the territory of Benjamin, but they did not find them. ⁵When they reached the district of Zuph, Saul said to the servant who was with him, "Come, let's go back, or my father will stop thinking about the donkeys and start worrying about us." ⁶But the servant replied, "Look, in this town there is a man of God; he is highly respected, and everything he says comes true. Let's go there now. Perhaps he will tell us what way to take."

What was the second link in the chain? In their failure to locate the lost donkeys, it was suggested that they would visit a seer who resided in the district of Zuph. This set in motion the meeting between Saul and Samuel, with Saul in a frame of mind to listen to what Samuel had to say.
Here is an example of a situation that was used of God to attain His purpose, where that situation had nothing to do with the actual purpose. What did Saul think he was doing? Saul's intent was entirely to ask this prophet for the location of his donkeys. What was God's purpose in Saul's visit to Samuel? Samuel needed to meet Saul in a context where God could point out this man to Samuel as the next King. Some people like to trust in coincidental events to point to some greater purpose. Others consider coincidences to be simply a matter of statistical anomaly, only to be ignored. Certainly we know that God is sovereign, and can work all things out for His purpose (Romans 8:28). We must always realize that when God is calling us to do something, we are called by one who's wisdom and knowledge far exceeds our own. We must trust that his call is true and step out on faith.
Why did God reveal his will to Samuel? Samuel had been called by God as the last judge of Israel. This characterized Samuel as a prophet, different than anyone else in all of Israel. What did a prophet do that others did not? A prophet had access to God, and was called to share God's will with others. Note that under this definition of an Old Testament prophet, all Christians are prophets. All Christians have access to God through prayer, and are called to share God's will with others. There is little difference between a faithful Christian and an Old-Testament prophet. If any difference exists, it is in the modern Christian's reluctance to step out in faith and act upon the gifts God gave you.
Note that God referred to Saul's position as a Captain, or prince, or governor; not as a King. He would not be the authority for the people, nor would he take God's place. The people wanted a king like the other nations, a dictator who would make their decisions for them, and by so doing lose the freedom that God had given to each person. By looking to Saul for guidance, the people would be drawn away from their dependence upon God.

When you leave me today, you will meet two men near Rachel's tomb, at Zelzah on the border of Benjamin. They will say to you, 'The donkeys you set out to look for have been found. And now your father has stopped thinking about them and is worried about you. He is asking, "What shall I do about my son?"' ³"Then you will go on from there until you reach the great tree of Tabor. Three men going up to God at Bethel will meet you there. One will be carrying three young goats, another three loaves of bread, and another a skin of wine. ⁴They will greet you and offer you two loaves of bread, which you will accept from them. ⁵"After that you will go to Gibeah of God, where there is a Philistine outpost. As you approach the town, you will meet a procession of prophets coming down from the high place with lyres, tambourines, flutes and harps being played before them, and they will be prophesying. ⁶The Spirit of the LORD will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. ⁷Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.

Then, , God gave three signs to assure Saul of his calling. What were the three signs? First he would meet men along the road who would notify him of the retrieval of his donkeys. Second, he will meet a group of prophets as he is taken to the town of Gibeah, and third, as they prophesy, the Holy Spirit will come upon Saul, and he will prophesy with them. Note the last one, and the significance of it. Some people teach that the Holy Spirit did not indwell people until the experience of the early church at Pentecost. Such a view is not well researched. Even the apostles received the Holy Spirit in the upper room when they met Jesus after the resurrection. There is one difference, however, with the way that the Holy Spirit worked prior to and after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. . Prior to the resurrection, God withdrew His Holy Spirit from people. That is not the case when one accepts Christ in faith. Note that Saul is told that he will turn into an entirely different person. What does this mean? When the Holy Spirit comes and dwells in the life of a believer, a transformation takes place as that person turns from a world-centered view to a God-centered view, seeking to turn from the wickedness of this world and embrace the will of God in their lives. If no such transformation takes place in the live of one who professes to know Christ, that knowledge is suspect. After the resurrection, the Holy Spirit enters one's life only when the individual chooses Christ. In the Old Testament, people did not always ask for the Holy Spirit to come; Saul is a good example.

[lola21st 2]

mbstudent -

Thanks for sharing this teaching and expanding the discussion!

I wanted to comment on one thing that the writer stated:

"What did a prophet do that others did not? A prophet had access to God, and was called to share God's will with others. Note that under this definition of an Old Testament prophet, all Christians are prophets. All Christians have access to God through prayer, and are called to share God's will with others. There is little difference between a faithful Christian and an Old-Testament prophet. If any difference exists, it is in the modern Christian's reluctance to step out in faith and act upon the gifts God gave you. "

I would also say that another difference is the modern Christian's lack of discipline and obedience. I say that because many of us do not do those things that give us access to God (e.g., prayer, fasting, study of the Word). Where it gets dicey is when these Christians who aren't fully trained up/don't have a solid foundation attempt to step out using their underdeveloped gifts and share what they consider God's will on others. I have a friend who used to attend a church that focuses on the prophetic and at times it felt like "Prophets R Us", everybody had a word to share and oftentimes while there were good intentions, their word was way off base. What's worse is when the word is not received by the recipient and the "prophet" insists that their "word" is true. Granted there are times when an authentic prophecy will not be received by the recipient (e.g., due to denial) but the prophet's role in those instances is to gracefully let it go since their job is complete. The message has been delivered, the Holy Spirit will now deal with the person. Sometimes, "prophets" suffer from "role creep" (assuming the additional efforts aren't given to them by the Lord)...

[HisLightbeam 0]

LOL, you know you truly amused me with the prophets r us thing. But the wisdom behind these posts is so amazing. I am too happy to be able to browse tonight.

[Linda Irish 0]

Reading through this Bible Study tonight was wonderful!!!!! (Thank you all)...like eating a delicious steak dinner...only this food was for the spirit man...(and didn't go directly to the hips lol) Good reading especially before bedtime....can't wait to dream tonight!!!!

[awesomegod16 0]

I actually am joining in on this study a little late but as I really need to understand the role of the prophet and visions etc.

When I read about this account what I saw was that Samuel was told about Saul before he even met him. And also everything was done according to God's timing because Saul and the servant were out looking for the donkeys. In the meantime God speaks to Samuel, the day before and tells him about Saul. He said he 'revealed" to Samuel, not just told him. I wonder if there is a difference?
Anyway, so actually it says the second time the Lord said to Samuel about Saul.

And he said, Hear now my words: if there be a prophet among you, I Jehovah will make myself known unto him in a vision, I will speak with him in a dream. (Numbers 12:6) so God makes himself known to a prophet in a vision and speak to him in a dream, interesting.
blossom

[Guest Guest]

Ladies Blessed be the name of the Lord for your wisdom
May the Lord Bless You and keep you.

[RnestseekR 0]

This study had collected some dust in my mind since its original posting. Thank you for your blessing, MB, and pulling this study back to the front of my mind again!

Waiting - I STINK at it. Just want it NOW!

[RnestseekR 0]

Blossom: You had commented about the scripture that God makes himself known in a vision and/or dream. My question to the forum is this: Has God actually revealed himself openly to you in a vision or dream, or has it just been a deep, indescribable impression on your heart that the dream/vision/message was from Him. Like coming away from spending time with a friend your heart has known forever, or is it overt???
I have not experienced the overt version. I have seen an angel in a dream one time - a blatant angel - and listened to it while it played the piano and sang in worship. But have never seen Jesus nor God in a dream. I am also not claiming to be a prophet either, but I was just curious as to what others have experienced.