Prosperity Tithing

[mjtorrence 0]

I have a question that has been on my mind, If we as Christians who are saved by the blood of Jesus, and Jesus came to abolish the old law, and we are not under the law but saved by grace, then why do Pastors still preach the importance of the tithe? It states in 2Corn 9:7 You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully."

[Cholette 0]

Well, tithing is BEFORE the law. Abraham tithed and he was before the law of Moses.

I don't believe in a person being cursed because they don't tithe because Jesus became the curse for us. I do believe that when you worship the Lord with the first 10% of your income, there is something so worshipful about it.

MJ, I also believe that each person needs to go to God for himself. We have to be very careful when money is taught in the pulpits today because a lot of it is for selfish gain. I hate saying that, but I've seen first hand wha happens behind closed doors and its not pretty. There was a season where I didn't tithe because I wanted to LEARN for myself what it is to tithe and what God said about it before I just did it because someone told me I HAD TO. During that time, I wasn't struck down...I wasn't poor...nothing happened to me. Once I learned about tithing and that it's a form of WORSHIP to the Lord, I began to do it and I'm OVERLY blessed.

I don't tithe to GET BLESSED...I give because I WANT God to have the first portion of my paycheck because it's because of HIM that I have one in the first place.

God doesn't MAKE us do anything...he gives us a plan to better our lives, but doesn't penalize us for not choosing the better way...that's UNCONDITIONAL LOVE!!

My response to your question is how God has taught ME. Others may have their own way of responding to your question, but for me and God...this is working. Never, never, never allow anyone to pressure you to do ANYTHING...because that isn't God. I hope this helps you!

[dreamster 0]

grt reply C,,, ,,um mj,, ive said exactly wat uve said,, an i feel u totaly on this,, im still coming 2 terms wiv sum things but consider ur giveing as an act of wership jus between u an tha lord,, ,,, wer ur heart is ther ur treasure will also be,, ,,, if ur in a grt church thats doin the stuff of the gospel u shood be able 2 give as ur hearts desires,, ,,,b/D

[Delightful soul 0]

the new testament church gave all they owned when you look at it, so a tenth is really a small amount to give........I see it as cheap taxes. I remember at a conference i got hit with this insatiable urge to throw all my money in the tithing bucket. Giving should be a joy.,and if it's not then don't do it.......we all have to answer to God personally. REally Jesus tithed his whole life, not ten percent and I am really grateful.......so how much should I give???????and should I be mad and suspicious of others who teach me to sacrifice what is God's anyways???

[mjtorrence 0]

God doesn't MAKE us do anything...he gives us a plan to better our lives, but doesn't penalize us for not choosing the better way...that's UNCONDITIONAL LOVE!! I like that you said this Cholette yet today this is what my Pastor said to the congreation that if you don't tithe or give that God will not bless you if ur in a grt church thats doin the stuff of the gospel u shood be able 2 give as ur hearts desires,, thank you for this dreamster this is very true yet in my church this tithing thing is a big big deal and constantly said every service that if we don't tithe or give we will be cursed Giving should be a joy. Yes our giving should be cheerfully and joyfully not because someone is constantly battering us to give and give. I am not one that is making a fuss about tithing cause we are tithers and givers its just that I dont see the importance of keep preaching about it every service. As for instance the holy spirit spoke not only to me but to my husband too one service to give a thousand dollars so we did it without hestation and you know what the Pastor got up the next Sun and said just because you gave that money you can't buy a blessing first of all we were not in the least trying to buy something that we know we can't second we heard the holy spirit say give and we obeyed and thirdly after that I said I wouldn't give any more to anything

[Cholette 0]

WOW! I'm so sorry MJ...I really am. It's really sad but a lot of churches are preaching on money because the revenue is probably going down, due to the economy and people are losing their jobs. Instead of the pastor trusting in God to provide and send increase to the church, they are in the pulpit getting on the people to tithe. It's not ALL of the churches...let me make that clear, but I've heard your story a lot lately and I'm saddened by that.

I would admonish you to NOT stop giving because the same way you and your husband obeyed God and gave the offering, he will speak and tell you again to give. You are NOT giving to the church, so to speak...you are obeying God. Don't let what your pastor said stop you from being a blessing. We are BLESSED to be a blessing and NO MAN should be able to stop you from being a blessing.

Your pastor sounds like he's operating in a little fear right now. Just pray for him and ask the Lord to minister to his heart in this season. Pastor's are learning, in this season, that they need to trust God in the same way they've been teaching us to do.

I've prayed for your church!!!

[dreamster 0]

m/j ive been wher u r rite now had tha same message werd 4 werd,, even werse,, i had 2 leave that ch,, becos of control an legalism,, i kno churchs hav become money hungry monsters 2 maintain all manner of things,, i suggest if ur not comfy/happy wher u r ,, u shood consider moveing, ,,D

[mjtorrence 0]

Thank you dreamster and cholette for praying for the church, what I meant to say is when they ask for money for other things such as trips and be a blessing to others in the church I will not give because I feel like that was very rude thing to say to me and my husband when we were obeying God and when we give we do not give selfishly we give because it brings joy to our heart to give because God has been so good to us and has blessed us richly

[dreamster 0]

hmmm um ok, well i wood jus askthe lord wat u shood give,,dont be manipulated or guilt driven 2 give thats jus plain carnel flesh,, let peace be ur umpire in ALLTHANGS ,, D

[Delightful soul 0]

I want to put a spanner in the works here by saying, that perhaps if we are called to a church, we should be a blessing no matter what is preached. Touch not God's anointed i have heard in His word and also remember what happened to Miriam when she judged Moses...not that I am saying anything bad will happen, but thing is, if you are not happy with where you are, then pray and seek God about whether you should be there. If you find you are not meant to be, go in peace. But if God has you there and wants you to stay, then stay and be of good cheer. Jesus has overcome the world and really. I feel for your frustration, but I really believe that tithing is a principle that if we follow, God will open the heavens and pour out a blessing as written in Malachi. In fact if we give to God then what others say should not matter. MJ don't worry about what your leaders are doing or saying. Pray for them and lift them up. I understand how hard it is when you have been hurt. I have had issues with my leaders on and off and God is showing me more and more , that if I judge them, it really is none of my business and also even if they are in the wrong, our position should be to uplift them in prayer and go on acting as we know Jesus is calling us to, in forgiveness and love. Love believes the best, hopes all things, believes all things and never gives up. I would not give unless God tells me to. If your pastor is telling you to tithe , then don't just do what He says, look up the scriptures he is teaching you on and then find out for yourself. You are accountable for your own actions, the pastor is accountable for delivering the word correctly and if he is wrong, then walk away if this is what you feel in your heart of hearts....but don't stay and judge the pastor for sinning if he has, it is not our job. Trust me MJ, I have paid a hefty price for complaining about leaders and I am now in a place where I daren't touch His leaders, they have a heavier burden and accountability to God without them being accountable to us to.....we are all accountable to God.


I would get in a quiet place and ask God what He thinks of the whole situation and ask Him where you are meant to be. He will not put you under a pastor whom is teaching error, unless ofcourse you think they are in error when maybe they are not and God wants to change your heart. It is either or, no inbetweens if you get my meaning.


I really hope you understand what I am trying to say here. It's a hard pill but I pray you find this word in peace as it is sent.


Blessings

[Virtuous 0]

Jesus didn’t come to abolish the law. He came to fulfill it. No, we are no longer under the law but under grace which is good because if we were under the law, we would all be dead. Not just because of not being tithers, but everything else as well. It’s the principle of tithing just as it is the principle of the law. God fulfilled the law when He died because that’s what the law stated should’ve happened. That’s what He fulfilled. He fulfilled DEATH of the law for our sins. You have to look at what the law was about things. He didn’t get rid of (abolish) the law of the thing; He DIED to fulfill the results of what was/is suppose to happen of not doing it. Where do you think we would all be if we died under the curse of the law? We’d go straight to hell. His death to fulfill the law is more for our spiritual being because we are not perfect.

Yes, tithes were before the law. If it was before the law, and if we look at we are no longer under the law, tithing shouldn’t be included if it was before the law. Are we not suppose to follow the law because we are under grace? Is the law fulfilled or is it just that the law of tithing fulfilled? Tithing was after the law as well. The Pharisees tithed in the New Testament. It’s mentioned in one of the Gospels that I know of. I think it’s Luke? They were actually getting scolded because they made sure they tithed but they weren’t doing any of the other things toward/with/for the people. They were told it was good to tithe but don’t’ forget to do those other things too.

I believe the curse of the law came along with the curse of the ground when Adam and Eve sinned. There is no way Adam and Eve (in their sin) could’ve stood on a holy ground so God HAD to curse the ground. There’s no way a holy people (which God knew He was going to send His Son to save) could’ve stood up without a hope of freedom of living under this curse so He had to send Jesus to fulfill the law that would put us under grace. We couldn’t have made it because we are a sinful people therefore we need grace to protect us from the law. The law is still there.

People are not looking at the principles or even being taught the principles of tithing. THAT’S the problem. We all talk about putting God first in every area of our lives. ..UNLESS money is involved. I don’t tithe because I’m afraid of being cursed with a curse. I tithe to honor God with the first fruit (the best) of my income because it is He who gives me power to get wealth and because I love Him. I do it out of obedience.

Cholette is right. God is NOT GOING TO MAKE you give. He doesn’t have to. For every person who won’t give; there’s one or MORE who will willingly give.

[lola21st 2]

I agree with everything that's been already stated and just want to encourage you to continue giving as prompted by the Holy Spirit. What that pastor is teaching is incorrect and inappropriate (which is why it's important to study the Word on our own so that we can identify bad teaching when it surfaces) and he will be held accountable to the Lord so pray for him that he sees the error in his teaching and changes his ways accordingly.

Don't let this situation prevent you and your husband from continuing to be good stewards of God's money. Not necessarily saying that you should or shouldn't continue giving to that church, I'm just saying don't allow your anger/displeasure over the situation to cause you to make decisions that would grieve the Holy Spirit. Keep seeking the Lord on this matter and do what He says, not what the pastor says. So if there are offerings that are announced and you two don't feel that the Holy Spirit is leading you to contribute, then don't. But don't hold back if you get that prompting from the Holy Spirit, EVEN if it benefits the pastor.

I've heard of this happening more as well these days and even my pastor has incorporated this into his messages but I continue to give as I believe the Lord is directing me.



Going on a tangent here, I'm also noticing it more on television with televangelists who are suggesting that with a seed offering of $1,000 USD (just one example), people who donate at least that level of money will see amazing things manifest in their lives and the miracles will begin within a couple of weeks. They even tell the viewing audience to go ahead and put the amount on their credit card... This is the group that also works my tithes and offerings nerves - I have a problem with them telling people to get into debt to send them an offering when the Lord is so against debt.

[dreamster 0]

bible says wer 2 lend not borrow,, boy thers nuthing like a money topik 2 get things goin

[mjtorrence 0]

Delightful Soul thank you for your response I am not complaining or even talking about the Pastors and I don't believe I am no ways to be compared to Miriam as I am not complaining I am just speaking about any Pastors that are constantly saying to their congregation that if they dont give or tithe they will be cursed and receive no blessing from God, I am not standing in the gap judging anyone I am just putting a topic out there and giving a example of what my experience has been and yes I have heard that scripture before all I was saying is we did what the holy spirit told us to do and we didn't do it publicly we did it in private so as not to bring attention to ourselves and openly we get rebuked for what for listening and being obedient. My question was about the constantly asking for money and also saying if you don't tithe or give you won't be blessed no where in the bible does it say this, also I am not angry or frustrated I believe that I was just hurt that this would be said to us there is no way we would ever think of buying a blessing.

[lola21st 2]

mjtorrence wrote:

I am not standing in the gap judging anyone I am just putting a topic out there and giving a example of what my experience has been and yes I have heard that scripture before all I was saying is we did what the holy spirit told us to do and we didn't do it publicly we did it in private so as not to bring attention to ourselves and openly we get rebuked for what for listening and being obedient.

What?? I missed this part before...you were openly rebuked?! Ugh, our leaders need prayer.... He totally missed it....Is everything else ok otherwise at that church?

[mjtorrence 0]

Yes we were openly told that we couldnt buy a blessing that is something we would never do

[dreamster 0]

,well id be gone by now,,ther r serious issues ther m/j, but up 2 u swty,

[Delightful soul 0]

MJ, sounds like you should follow your heart on this one and perhaps ask God if He wants you to leave or stay.

I personally believe that the opposite of a blessing IS a curse. So if Malachi says if we tithe God will open the heavens and pour out a blessing, then we will be blessed, not cursed. Also in Deuteronomy 28 it speaks about what leads to blessing and then cursing I believe.

Malachi 3:8-12 below


Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.


Mal 3:9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse : for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation.


Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse , that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing , that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].


Mal 3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.


Mal 3:12 And all nations shall call you blessed : for ye shall be a delightsome land , saith the LORD of hosts.

[quote]

If you read Virtuous comments, Jesus did not come to do away with the law and so tithing brings blessing and not tithing is like robbing God.

This is the word.

But ultimately you have to do what you feel lead to do.

I just don't like to see pastors or leaders defamed where ever it is. And once i had looked at the scriptures, i had to agree that your pastor may be right, although I was not there and was not able to know exactly what went on.

Like Dreamster has said, it is an interesting topic and really I feel this place is not a place to bad mouth anyone, televangelists or pastors or eachother so I pray for peace on here and that this place be a place of edification.


Bless you MJ and I hope that you find peace in your place of worship and if not that God would lead you to a place where you will find agreement and blessing...


DS

[Cholette 0]

The scripture that says "touch not my anointed" is not just about preachers...that's out of context. We are ALL God's anointed and no one is bigger and higher up than the next. It's just that some people have more visable positions and assignments.

I agree that we should not defame pastors and leaders, but we shouldn't defame ANYONE...not just them. We have put our leaders on a pedestal where they do not belong...they are servants, just like we all are...to bring Jesus to a dying world.

The curse has been absorbed in the body of Christ when He hung on the cross. That's what it means when it says Jesus came to FULFILL the law. All of what we deserve was placed on the body of Christ.

What I believe happens when we don't tithe is that we don't experience all that God desires for us to experience. Nothing bad happens...it's just that we don't experience HIS BEST...the abundant life that he desires for us. We will always BE BLESSED because we are in Christ...but there are measures of blessings...30,60 and 100 fold.

God knows where each one of us are. We all mature at different stages. To say that we are punished because we don't tithe, when a person just may not have the revelation on tithing yet is wrong. God wouldn't do that. We tithe from the heart and God knows a person who is just giving 10% in money from who his giving 10% with his heart. The amount on the line on the offering envelope doesn't determine a tither. God sees the HEART of man.

To go back to your original question MJ...and to reinterate what I said before...go with God! You and your husband seem to have a heart for God and that you are givers. Continue in that...no matter what!!!

[Virtuous 0]

We tithe from the heart and God knows a person who is just giving 10% in money from who his giving 10% with his heart. The amount on the line on the offering envelope doesn't determine a tither. God sees the HEART of man.

Whatcha say, whatcha say, What-you-say!!!! You got that right. Just ask the Shunamite(sp) woman who gave her last mite. HEY, God. Glory! Keep in mind this woman is alive and well today in some shape, form or fashion. I know because I have been her at times in giving. THAT’S WHY what Cholette said about the amount on the line on the offering envelope is soooooooo true! Uh, oh...!!!

[dreamster 0]

u cant argue wiv sistaC ,,she got it goin on,, D

[mjtorrence 0]

Thanks everyone for your help and feed back

[Delightful soul 0]

I guess this is a hot topic.

Why are certain scriptures ignored over the grace message?

Seems like we tiptoe around it alot when the facts are straight;

Malachi 3:8-12 below


Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.


Mal 3:9 Ye [are] cursed with a curse : for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation.


Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse , that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing , that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it].

I guess this is where I stand and I am a bit disheartened to think that so many of us, would rather talk about grace than our responsibilities of giving God what is due Him.

Grace is there for us, but if we continue in sin ( and according to malachi if we do not tithe we are 'robbers' which is a sin) there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin.


I'm sorry to offend and this has nothing to do with you MJ.

I am just really wanting to see Holiness displayed here. Where is the truth? Sometimes the truth stings but the facts are Grace is there not to be abused.

I once was tempted to spend my tithe and I said to God that I needed a jumper. I was out in the city it had suddenly turned cold and so i went in to the shop to buy a warm top with my tithe money. I kid you not the checkout lady charged me $3 for the top. I did not have to spend my tithe. I guess this is where I am at.

I really believe in the umpteen dozen scriptures that talk about tithing and offering being a part of obedience.
The law also states that we should not murder, or steal or lie etc, so does that mean with grace we should do these things too?

Grace is there for mistakes and for mercy when we fail but when we have knowlege we are accountable to follow His word and not use grace as an excuse to sin.

I happen to believe that His anointed is just that, people who walk in the authority and power of God. But I also feel that leaders are accountable to God and that there is a greater responsibility on them. So if we judge them, we are guilty of touching His anointed......1 Ch 16:22 and Ps 105:15 both say also not to harm the prophets. IF this was referring to all of us, then why did God specify the prophets too. If anointed is everyone, then wouldn't prophets be anointed too? This IS TALKING ABOUT LEADERS.

I really pray that the grace message be preached with balance and not used to water down the convicting power of the word.


You can tell I am strong about this. Simply because I know there are consequences for action and I love the word more than I do, words that simply sound nice.

Thankyou for bringing this up MJ, cause it really has made me look into the word more and find out for myself what I believe and why I believe what I believe.


Sorry If I have offended anyone, but I do not want to offend the Holiness of the scriptures or my Lord and I really feel the grace message being lifted up here is not the appropriate avenue when dealing with matters on whether there are curses or not according to the bible. Facts are if we sin and do not repent, curses are on us in my opinion.


But that is my opinion and I feel it had to be expressed.

[dreamster 0]

i dont kno a single beleaver who hasnt sined afta being saved , so by ur applikation of scripture ther remains no more sacrifice 4 those ppl, therfore heaven will be empty, titheing became law in the old testiment,, if ur gonna live that way u hav2 obey all of it, so ur obliged 2 do all the other offerings aswell, ,,its funny how u only here ppl preach on thighing ,, wen u ask about anutha old testiment area they say ohh we dont need 2 do that ,,its old testiment,, im not against thighing, but i dont see it as an absolute in the new testiment,, more that ppl gave according 2 ther means,,

[Delightful soul 0]

Yes we have all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, but does that mean the murderer continue in their sin, does that mean the liar continue lying? I'm not saying that we should live by the law but rather live by love which completes the law. Tithing should be MORE THAN 10% offerings should be MORE THAN this if we live by love. Like I said in my first post, the new testament church, sold all they had, pooled their resources and gave to the needy............I am as much in need of correction and change for this COmmand to love one another as we all are.

I am just stating that there are curses for sin, plain and simple. If we turn to Jesus and repent, and go sin no more, then we will LOVE more , give more, have more and be blessed.

Anyhow, it also talks about not arguing, so before this turns into one...i shall say this;

The body is HUUUGGGE we all our our differences of opinion and to argue is not going to get us much. I just did not want this to be another bagging session about pastors and televangelists cause being critical gets people into sticky arguments......


Peace all. and let us all give as we purpose in our hearts with cheer. Whatever that may be. For me it is something I have found in malachi, for others it may be found in other scriptures. WE are all accountable on the day of the Lord to account for what we believe.


Peace.

[lola21st 2]

I just don't like to see pastors or leaders defamed where ever it is. And once i had looked at the scriptures, i had to agree that your pastor may be right, although I was not there and was not able to know exactly what went on.

I happen to believe that His anointed is just that, people who walk in the authority and power of God. But I also feel that leaders are accountable to God and that there is a greater responsibility on them. So if we judge them, we are guilty of touching His anointed......1 Ch 16:22 and Ps 105:15 both say also not to harm the prophets. IF this was referring to all of us, then why did God specify the prophets too. If anointed is everyone, then wouldn't prophets be anointed too? This IS TALKING ABOUT LEADERS.

Since I'm the one who made the observation regarding televangelists, I'm taking an opportunity to respond. I don't agree that making legitimate observations of leaders who are engaged in practices that are not biblical is "defaming" them. But it may be that we should agree to disagree.

What I will say about my statement is that it was NOT a blanket statement about ALL televangelists. If I gave you that impression, I apologize for being so brief as that wasn't my intent. We all know that there are tv pastors who are doing the work on God and are blessing the Kingdom in HUGE ways through the tv platform by reaching areas of the world that wouldn't otherwise hear the Gospel, by establishing missions and programs globally to help the poor, impoverished, and not yet saved. And of course, they're providing believers with opportunities to hear solid biblical teaching and be encouraged. However, not everyone on tv (or IRL) is doing this - It's this small group that I'm referring to in my statement - those who are preaching a false doctrine and are taking advantage of the flock in the process. My belief is that although someone has the title of pastor, apostle, or prophet it DOES NOT automatically mean that they are appointed of God nor are they His anointed. We are to know them by their fruit. In my post, I indicated that suggesting that people get into debt by using their charge card to donate a huge amount of money ($1,000 because the starting point) and suggesting that if they do this that God will bless them is not biblical because God does not like debt and buying blessings. The scriptural support for this can be found in Psalm 37:21, Proverbs 3:27-28, 2 Kings 4:1; Matthew 5:25-26; 7:22-24; 18:23-24 (and there are others) - if I'm wrong, please show me the scriptural references that would support doing this.

The Bible also warns us in several places to be wary of false teaching - knowing it is occurring but not raising it as an issue because it would be criticizing the teachers is not wise nor responsible in my opinion. Christians must always be on guard against falsehoods that are presented as Biblical teaching. In the Old Testament, both Jeremiah and Ezekiel warned the Israelites of false prophets who were speaking things that were not given to them from the Lord:


Jeremiah 14:14
Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.

Jeremiah 23:16
This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.

Lamentations 2:14
The visions of your prophets were false and worthless; they did not expose your sin to ward off your captivity. The prophecies they gave you were false and misleading.

Ezekiel 13:9
My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.

Ezekiel 22:28
Her prophets whitewash these deeds for them by false visions and lying divinations. They say, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says’—when the LORD has not spoken.



In the New Testament, Paul, Peter, and John all warned the church to be wary of false teachers who will try to work their way into the church while spreading false teachings.
2 Peter 2
Destructive Doctrines
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

2 Corinthians 11
Concern for Their Faithfulness
1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me. 2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity[a] that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!
Paul and False Apostles

5 For I consider that I am not at all inferior to the most eminent apostles. 6 Even though I am untrained in speech, yet I am not in knowledge. But we have been thoroughly manifested among you in all things.
7 Did I commit sin in humbling myself that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you free of charge? 8 I robbed other churches, taking wages from them to minister to you. 9 And when I was present with you, and in need, I was a burden to no one, for what I lacked the brethren who came from Macedonia supplied. And in everything I kept myself from being burdensome to you, and so I will keep myself. 10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no one shall stop me from this boasting in the regions of Achaia. 11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows!
12 But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.


Galatians 1:6-10
Only One Gospel
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

Also, Galatians 3 and 6

1 Timothy 6 (the whole chapter addresses this)
Honor Masters
1 Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed. 2 And those who have believing masters, let them not despise them because they are brethren, but rather serve them because those who are benefited are believers and beloved. Teach and exhort these things.

Error and Greed
3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings[a] of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

Matthew 7:15-16 - 15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them."

[lola21st 2]

DS - This is indeed an engaging topic that is resulting in some lively fellowship. Don't be afraid to state your belief and allow others to respond - this is how we all learn and grow in Christ. We can all disagree without being disagreeable... ...and if we approach that line, we all have each other (and Mia) to keep us in check and reign us back in....

[Virtuous 0]

Delightful Soul,
I wasn’t going to say anything, other than what I already have, but after reading one of your most recent post, I feel I should. I KNOW exactly what you’re speaking about concerning the tithes and the leaders. First let me say that I don’t think MJ (not saying that you felt/feel she is doing this) was ill-speaking against her Pastor. I think she is just expressing what happened to her and how she felt about it which is totally understandable.

However, what you’re saying is true about the scripture. It IS speaking of leaders and I had to learn that the HARD way. I wasn’t doing it on purpose but I just didn’t know. I was so hurt behind something that happened between me, my Pastor, and a couple other saints that I talked about it to anyone who would listen. Well, not anyone. But I talked to family about it… It hurt SOOOOOOO bad. I told God I was LEAVING and I meant every word I said. He said, “You ain’t (yep that’s the word He used) going nowhere. You’re going to sit there and you’re going to get through this.” [MJ, I’m not saying that’s what you should do. You have to know what God is telling you. I’m just using myself as an example.] I should’ve gone into prayer about the situation and given it over to God because I KNEW I didn’t do anything wrong. Once I did that, God told me HE was going to vindicate me. I began to rest in Him, stayed in church because I was too afraid to go anywhere else after He said I couldn’t (yep I had an attitude about it at first and still “plotting” to leave), and after awhile, the hurt and the anger was gone. But it took God to show me that I HAD to go through that. I didn’t understand it at the time, but I do now. Growth and maturity followed in so many areas. Do I still feel that my Pastor was wrong? Yes. Did I see God’s hand move in the situation? Yes. Not only with my Pastor but with me as well. One of the things He revealed to me was that I HAD my Pastor on the pedestal where He belonged. My Pastor makes decisions that I don’t agree with and sometimes things are said during service that I don’t agree with (no one is ALWAYS operating in the spirit) and I HAVE to take it to God because if I don’t, I’ll take it somewhere else and start a gossip session. It is a MUST that we pray for our leaders as well. We have to keep them lifted up in prayer. I did that with the situation I told you about earlier and it caused a couple of my family members not to even want to visit my church because of it. I could’ve cost my family their very lives by telling them what I went through during that time (because I was hurt and just didn’t understand what was going on) and it was a TEST FOR ME to make and mold me. Tell God on your Pastor and allow Him to deal with him/her. So we DO have to be careful about that.

As far as the tithing goes, there have been deep discussions on this very topic on this site. You are absolutely right. Some of the things you mentioned, I also mentioned in the other thread that was started before I became a member. Everything you have said about tithing, curses, and grace is the truth. Those are hard facts to swallow. It’s tight but it’s right. There are many who will not agree because they want to do away with the Old Testament because it is under the law. The Old Testament is rough and it’s because sin was brought into the world. When God spoke creation into being, there was NO SIN – Period. What Jesus did for us, already was, in the beginning. When Jesus died, he took all of our sin to the cross, saving us from death because of our sins. Now, we don’t die BECAUSE of our sins. The grace of God when He sent Jesus saved us from that. We can die IN our sin if we don’t repent. What would the NT be without the OT? Would there even be a NT?

Grace is a beautiful thing and it IS taken for granted. We can’t use it to justify, sugar coat or pamper. We have to be taught the unadulterated word of God. Yep…HOLINESS. I agree with you 100%. I feel just as strongly as you feel about this. I chose to not go into the depth that you did because I did that in the other thread and it went the same way this one is going.

"Grace is there for mistakes and for mercy when we fail but when we have knowlege we are accountable to follow His word and not use grace as an excuse to sin.
I really pray that the grace message be preached with balance and not used to water down the convicting power of the word."

I don’t think this could’ve been said better.

I do believe that tithing/giving comes from the heart and a person is led by the Lord on what and where to give. He has given us the minimum already when it comes to tithing. He specifically asks for 10% of all of our increase - that’s a given. But as for me, He has instructed me to give more than 10%. My Pastor didn’t tell me, a Prophet didn’t bring me a prophecy telling me – God told me Himself what I should tithe. I give in the offering (above my tithes) what I want/desire to give and sometimes He tells me what to give. It’s not about the money. Come on now, we’re talking about God here. He who lives where the streets are made of gold. It’s my obedience. He said it’s about the obedience and not the sacrifice.

Yes tithing IS actually more than money/income. It has to be. That’s why I believe it says “of INCREASE” and not wages. Give of yourself through talents, time, love, and all the other things expressed to the Pharisees when they were ONLY carefully giving money. The harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few.

I don’t think ANY of us want to offend the other and we all have our thoughts about things. We’re not going to always agree but I think the most important thing to remember is that we need to speak things in love and hope and pray it is taken in the spirit of love.

----As I was getting ready to post this, I saw where lola21st posted and I just wanted to chime in.

I believe all that you have said as well because what you speak about is happening every day. We have to be careful because God warned us of false prophets/teaching. There is this one televangelist that a co-worker of mine was telling me about who was coming to a local area that she was going to see. My sister had just mentioned this person to me the night before. I had never heard of this person. I was like, hmm. But as my co-worker began to go into more detail about this person and the ministry, something just didn’t sit well with me. She said this person was sending letters asking for a certain amount of money and for her to do certain things with items sent to her. Well, she didn’t get the items. I didn’t say anything to either of them about it. I did a search on-line and the entire first page of the search was allegations brought up against the ministry. It is said that this person would have conferences and ask the people to fill out visitor/information cards. The cards are taken up before service and the spouse of this person would transmit the information to this person about the people through an earpiece this person was wearing. I didn’t say anything to my co-worker or my sister. My co-worker went to the conference and I asked her how it was. She told me it was powerful and she and the young lady who went with her were called out and given a word. I asked her to tell me everything that happened. Just as the search said, it happened. They were asked to fill out information cards and they were taken up before the service. One of the things asked is if there was sickness in the body and if they had a prayer request. Everything she and her friend put on the card, this person spoke. I sent her the information I found and let her decide for herself. I did the same with my sister. I didn’t bash the person or anything, but I did pray for this person AND the people who are following this person.

[lola21st 2]

I believe all that you have said as well because what you speak about is happening every day. We have to be careful because God warned us of false prophets/teaching. There is this one televangelist that a co-worker of mine was telling me about who was coming to a local area that she was going to see. My sister had just mentioned this person to me the night before. I had never heard of this person. I was like, hmm. But as my co-worker began to go into more detail about this person and the ministry, something just didn’t sit well with me. She said this person was sending letters asking for a certain amount of money and for her to do certain things with items sent to her. Well, she didn’t get the items. I didn’t say anything to either of them about it. I did a search on-line and the entire first page of the search was allegations brought up against the ministry. It is said that this person would have conferences and ask the people to fill out visitor/information cards. The cards are taken up before service and the spouse of this person would transmit the information to this person about the people through an earpiece this person was wearing. I didn’t say anything to my co-worker or my sister. My co-worker went to the conference and I asked her how it was. She told me it was powerful and she and the young lady who went with her were called out and given a word. I asked her to tell me everything that happened. Just as the search said, it happened. They were asked to fill out information cards and they were taken up before the service. One of the things asked is if there was sickness in the body and if they had a prayer request. Everything she and her friend put on the card, this person spoke. I sent her the information I found and let her decide for herself. I did the same with my sister. I didn’t bash the person or anything, but I did pray for this person AND the people who are following this person.

Exactly. I've had the same experience with friends and relatives. And I realize that I didn't state this in my posts (sorry!) - I completely agree that we shouldn't criticize God's Anointed. I am witnessing this very dynamic right now within my own church which is divided right now because of a moral transgression that our pastor experienced over a year ago. My point simply is that not every one who holds the title is appointed by God and unfortunately there are a growing number of people who see ministry as a surefire get rich business and are fleecing the flock. In my post, I didn't identify any specific ministry and don't intend to but I will warn other Christians of the dynamic and urge them to stay close to the Word as they navigate through these waters.

The root of my concern is that when we use this principle, we have to be careful to not suggest that as such, pastors and other spiritual leaders are more or less unchallengeable or untouchable. That notion opens the door to manipulation and control by the pastor/leader. If I appear sensitive to this, it's because I live in the region where Jim Jones' gained popularity and I know people who lost relatives in the Guyana tragedy of 1978 so have seen firsthand what can transpire when this principle is itself manipulated and taken to its extreme. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown)

While I certainly agree that we should be reverent and respectful towards our spiritual leaders, we also have the right (if not requirement) to question unbiblical teachings and draw attention to it.

By the way Delightful Soul and Virtuous, you've both raised some good points. I have my own thoughts as well on tithing and have chosen to stay out of that part of the discussion because my view has been stated and I have nothing to add that would add value to the discussion. As for the grace message, I completely agree with the following statement and am noodling over the rest of what you stated, DS - regardless of where I end up in my own belief, I appreciate the discussion because it has caused me to take some time to consider this idea more thoroughly.

"Grace is there for mistakes and for mercy when we fail but when we have knowlege we are accountable to follow His word and not use grace as an excuse to sin."

[mjtorrence 0]

Yes tithing IS actually more than money/income. It has to be. That’s why I believe it says “of INCREASE” and not wages. Give of yourself through talents, time, love, and all the other things expressed to the Pharisees when they were ONLY carefully giving money. The harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few. This is the answer I was looking for yet we are tithers and give offerings and are cheerful givers to every good work, I don't believe that I was being dishonorable to our Pastors, because we honor and respect them as being called of God yet we are to be respected as well. I also respect each and everyone's opinion here I would not ever be disrespectful to anyone I do understand that to talk on the subject of money is very touchy

[Cholette 0]

Just for the record...I'm not using Grace as an excuse to sin. Never, never, never my intention. I just see it a little differently and its hard to explain it when we are talking about money. What Jesus has done for us through Calvary gets buried a lot of times and I just wanted to show that. It's not really coming through as I have hoped.

MJ...I hope through all of this discussion, your question has been answered. All in all...keep sowing girl...God needs people like you and your hubby in the Body of Christ!!

[Dove-Solutions 0]

MJ,

I gave a really good sermon on here about that not to long ago. We are not to tithe. We are to give of our time, talent and our treasure. Not just money. If you have time to give, give it cheerfully. If you have talent to give then do it cheerfully and if you have treasure to give then do it gladly. Give all three if you can but whatever you decide do it with your whole heart and with gladness. The Lord fulfilled the tithe requirement. We are to give and it will be given unto us, good measure, pressed down, for by the measure we give it will be given unto us. No were in there does it say tithe. The Lord wants our heart. He doesnt need our money. It is the act of giving he wants. He wants you to give because you love him. A gift for gesture only means nothing. But a gift given in love means so much. The woman in the temple gave her last penny.....he was amazed because her love was so great she gave even her last penny. She gave because she loved. A gift is a gift....there is no monetary value on a gift. The value comes in the act of love. I hope that helps some. I loved Cholettes remarks. Good stuff there as well.

Love in Jesus,

Connie

[Virtuous 0]

Cholette,
Sweetie, I didn’t mean to make it sound like I felt as if you are using grace as an excuse to sin. I completely understand what you’re saying ABOUT grace as far as what it does for us as a result of Jesus dying on the cross.

Dove,
Do you mind directing me to that sermon? Or maybe even giving me the scripture references which state we are not to tithe?

[Dove-Solutions 0]

Virtuous,

I think it was the discussion you and I had before under the fellowship collum.

Love in Jesus,


Connie


PS I will find it.

[Virtuous 0]

Dove,

I found it. It's under "Prophetic Words". Then "Divine Revelations". Then the "Law and grace vs curses and blessings" thread.

I read it again. It's 4 pages long! We went deep! Your scripture references are about grace. They don't mention anything about we are not to tithe. The discussion was great! We played nice.

[Dove-Solutions 0]

Yes we did but I will find some scriptures about tithe vs giving. Hehe

[dreamster 0]

um wer ur treasure is ther ur heart will be also,, i really think the amout is imaterial, sum ppl give 90% of ther income, ,, i jus feel wen ppl r compelled 2 give its wrong,, i agree wiv ,,let all our doing be dun froma cheerful heart ,,, D

[Dove-Solutions 0]

I am going to post an article I found about tithing and offering and let you all read it. It confirmed for me many things that I was trying to understand. I hope this helps all of you understand this better. I did not personally write this article. The authors name is not listed.

FAQ: Most churches I have been to teach rather emphatically that Christians should “tithe,” that is, give 10% of their income to their church. I have even heard some ministers say that if you don't tithe, God will not bless you. Must you give a tenth (10%) to the church? What does the Bible say about financial giving?

“What does the Bible say?” is always the “bottom line” in life, but that vital question needs a qualifier: “To whom?” The Bible, the Word of God, most certainly does speak about financial giving, and a good case can be made that it is one of the five most basic activities for a Christian, the others being prayer, Bible reading and study, fellowship with other Christians, and telling others the Good News about Jesus Christ.

The question must be: “What does the Bible say to Christians about financial giving?” Why? Because what God says to Christians about financial giving is different than what He said to the Jews of the Old Testament about it. The sad news is that today very few Christians understand the difference, and, as a result, many are unnecessarily living under emotional and financial stress. For a more detailed exposition of this subject than we can set forth in this FAQ, I recommend our audio teaching Financial Stewardship: God’s Heart Concerning Money and Possessions as well as a book titled The Tithing Dilemma, by Ernest L. Martin.

And, as is so often the case in examining a biblical issue, that takes us to the subject of the administrations in Scripture. Unless we understand what parts of God’s Word are written to Jews, what parts are written to Gentiles, and what parts are written to Christians, we can neither understand nor apply its truths in our daily lives.

We are currently living in what the Bible calls the Administration of the Sacred Secret (Eph. 3:9), which began on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1ff) and will conclude with the Rapture of the Church (all living and dead Christians meeting the Lord in the air—1 Thess. 4:13-18). The primary curriculum for Christians (i.e., people born again of God’s incorruptible seed) is found in the Church Epistles: Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and 1 & 2 Thessalonians. It is there that we must look to find God’s specific directions for us today, and the issue of financial giving is given two chapters worth of ink in 2 Corinthians 8 & 9.

There are also some pertinent verses in other Epistles, and the message of Scripture to Christians is that because of the finished work of Jesus Christ, we do not live under the Mosaic Law, during which tithing was instituted and commanded as part of the Law. Therefore, tithing as a commandment of God has no relevance to believers today.

At this point, it is important to distinguish between tithing and giving. Although tithing per se is not relevant to Christians, giving most certainly is. As a member in particular of the Body of Christ, each Christian is to determine in his own heart how much he gives and where he allocates his resources among his brothers and sisters in Christ (2 Cor. 9:7). The Epistles metaphor by which material giving is strongly encouraged is that of sowing and reaping—the more you sow, the more you reap (2 Cor. 9:6). “Tithing” is never mentioned.

Under the Law, Jews were to give out of their produce, that is, what the Lord had provided for them. Just like the Word says, “We love God because He first loved us,” so we give because God has given to us. When we understand what God has done for us in Christ, and that the material blessings we have come from Him, and that He promises to bless us back for what we give, giving cheerfully is a joy.

Even in the Old Testament, believers understood that when they gave to God, they were opening a door, if you will, for Him to bless them in return. This is, of course, still true, but the idea has been distorted by some Christians who teach that one must give to God before God can bless him. Thus, too many Christians are giving in order to get. No, God always gives first.

Also, He does not specify just how He will bless us. If we sow, we will reap accordingly, but it may not be money for money, etc. Some Christians have become disillusioned about giving because when they gave money to their church, etc., they did not receive money back. They may have even failed to notice the blessing that God did give them. When we give in response to a blessing, and not so that we will get blessed, we can be cheerful and contented givers.

Making known the truth about this subject is critical, because the vast majority of Christians are told, and thus believes, that it is God’s will for them to “tithe,” which means to give one-tenth of what they earn. Many of the more “fundamental” Christian groups are adamant about this, and accompany this exhortation with a warning that failure to tithe will result in consequences of various kinds, usually having to do with a lack of prosperity.

In many groups, this has become little more than ecclesiastical extortion, with church leaders using the lever of people’s sincere desire to do what God says is right to squeeze money out of them. Such leaders proclaim that what God says is right is that you give at least ten percent of your income—to their organization. As a result of such pressure, financial giving has, for too many Christians, become a joyless, mechanical act of “bribing” God to avoid the consequences of not giving, and an attempt to earn His favor (something they already have!).

For many other Christians who once gave cheerfully, financial giving is no longer an act at all. They have stopped doing it altogether, either because they got sick and tired of the pressure being applied to them, or they really could not afford to tithe, or they saw the money they gave misused and feel that they were cheated when they did give.

Neither of these attitudes—giving joylessly or not giving at all—is biblically right, neither is the will of God, and both are therefore detrimental to a believer. That fits with John 8:32, where Jesus said that experientially knowing the truth, that is, practicing it, will make one free. Conversely, error regarding the Bible (the truth) will put people in bondage. And financial giving is a category in which countless Christian people are being subjected to the bondage of guilt and put through an emotional wringer they do not deserve.

If you feel that the above describes you, take heart, because you can be set free by the truth of God's Word. Then you can also share with others the treasure you have found. In our economically driven world of today, having the right attitude about money and material things is a huge asset in life. Knowing and practicing what God's Word says about financial giving will enable you to experience the joy of giving, and it will enable others in the Body of Christ to experience the joy of receiving and therefore having their needs met, so that together we can reach out with the Good News of God to a dying world.

A study of the Old Testament will show that tithing was instituted as part of the Mosaic Law to Israel. Some Christians point to Genesis 14 and/or 28 in a misguided attempt to prove that tithing was instituted prior to the Mosaic Law and is therefore relevant to Christians today. Their rationale is that because Abram gave ten percent of the spoils of war to Melchisedek, and because Jacob chose ten percent as the amount to give to God for watching over him on his journey, this is the prescribed amount God would have all people give. This is not sound biblical scholarship.

The Genesis 14 record takes place approximately 2000 years after Adam and Eve, and during all those years there is no biblical reference to tithing. Nor is there any record that Abram ever tithed as a result of some biblical law that told him to do so, and he certainly was “making money.” When he did give one tenth, it was not of the increase of his flocks and herds, which was the tithe prescribed by the Law, but rather of the spoils of war that he had gained by defeating the army from Mesopotamia.

In Genesis 28, Jacob told God that if He would keep him safe on his journey, keep him clothed and fed, and bring him home safely, he would give God a tenth of what he had. That was certainly not the Mosaic tithe, which was commanded whether or not those things happened. Both Jacob and Abram gave in response to a blessing.

Even in regard to Israel, for whom the tithe was specifically instituted, nothing was said about it until the beginning of the second year of their exodus. Prior to that, in Exodus 25, for the building of the Tabernacle, Moses instructed the Israelites to give “as their heart prompted them.”

You often hear proponents of the tithe say that surely Christians would do no less than what Jews did in the Old Testament, as if every Israelite gave ten percent of his income. A detailed study of the tithe is beyond the scope of this FAQ, but suffice it to say that the idea that each Israelite gave ten percent of his income (and therefore each Christian should do likewise) is far from the truth.

For example, an Israelite who had fewer than ten cattle born to him in a year did not have to tithe on them because the requirement stated that only the tenth animal that passed under the rod was to be tithed (Lev. 27:32). A farmer who had only eight cows born was therefore exempt from the tithe.

The tithe was basically on animal and agricultural products, and was paid in kind (i.e., the product itself). If one did not wish to pay his tithe in agricultural products, and decided to give money as a substitute, he was penalized and had to add a fifth part of its estimated value to the amount he paid (Lev. 27:31). Such a law was obviously not intended to encourage payment of the tithe in money.

The main purpose of the tithe was to support the Levitical priesthood. The Levites were responsible to minister to the people, and were prohibited from owning land, which obviously limited the ways in which they could earn income. God’s plan was that their support came from those to whom they ministered, much like the direction of Scripture for the Church today (1 Cor. 9:1 and following; Gal. 6:6 and following, etc.). The tithe also provided welfare for widows, orphans, etc.

One reason why there was no command to tithe until the Mosaic Law was that until then there was no Tabernacle (Tent of Meeting) and no Temple, no regular sacrifices commanded (the daily sacrifices alone commanded by the Law required more than 700 animals a year), and no class of Levitical priests to support. None of these would be relevant to a Christian today, even if they did exist.

Should a Christian today tithe? One is free to give 10% if he chooses, but we are not commanded to give any particular percentage or amount. Sad to say that many Christians, once misled and often emotionally coerced into tithing, stopped giving altogether when they learned the tithe is not required. 2 Corinthians 9:6 and 7 make it clear that the more generously we “sow” with the right attitude, the more abundantly we will reap.

For some believers who do not earn much, giving generously may not mean a large amount. For others, it may mean millions of dollars, and far more than 10%. Each Christian’s situation is different, and that is why God does not prescribe specific amounts that we should give, but allows us to make our own decisions. Remember, we are “fellow laborers” with Him, and He loves to work with us in determining how much and to whom we should give, and He loves to bless us with more so that we can give more. That kind of giving makes for an exciting element of the Christian life.

You may say, “Well, what about Malachi 3:6-10? That says people who do not tithe are ‘robbing God.’” Those verses have been used innumerable times to prod Christians into giving, but wait a moment—to whom is Malachi written? Well, in verse 9 of chapter 3 it says “the whole nation” is under a curse. What nation? The USA? No, the book of Malachi is specifically addressed to the nation of Israel, and more specifically to the priests (see 1:6,10-13; 2:1,7 and 8) who were badly mistreating God’s people. To use verses from Malachi as if they are talking to Christians is at best poor scholarship and at worst dishonest.

So what should Christians do about financial giving? 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 is the first place to go to find the answer to that question, and the heart of the message there is expressed in 9:7: “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” If, for you, that’s ten percent, great.

Beyond that, Scripture directs us to give to those who are genuinely ministering to our spiritual needs. When we do, we are making a sound investment in (that is, sowing into) a work that is bearing good spiritual fruit. Although there is no way we can help everyone who asks us, we are also encouraged to give to those in need, and we can seek the Lord for wisdom in doing so.

For a Christian, giving from the heart is all about knowing that we have a great, big, wonderful God, and also understanding who we are in Christ. Speaking of the attitude of the believers in Macedonia about financial giving, Paul said: “This they did, not as we hoped, but even beyond that, first they gave their own selves to the Lord, and to us, by the will of God” (2 Cor. 8:5). As Christians, each of us has been “bought with a price.” We (let alone our material possessions) don't even belong to ourselves. When you know that you belong to the Lord, and that everything that you have belongs to the Lord, and that he is responsible to keep his promises to care for you, then you can truly be a cheerful giver.

Love in Jesus,

Connie

[mjtorrence 0]

Thank you Dove, yet I do understand that you have never heard a Pastor say that but in my church I have heard my Pastor say if you don't tithe you will not be blessed I myself have not ever heard this either and it was a shocker to me it almost made me want to leave the church, yet thank you again for the article

[Delightful soul 0]

Merry Christmas everyone!

[lola21st 2]

Merry Christmas, Delightful Soul!

[Dove-Solutions 0]

Merry Christmas all. MJ what I am saying is we no longer tithe but give. That is basically it. It is no longer a requirement but a gester of love to God. That is basically what the article is saying. It just has all the biblical support with it.

Love in Jesus,

Connie

[mjtorrence 0]

[Virtuous 0]

[dreamster 0]

[SisterinChrist 0]

just wanted to add...
somtimes when pastors etc preach about tithing and offerings they tend to forgot to add this important, very important part of the bible that the Lord wants us as an offering. To offer ourselves as living sacrifices. Yes He wants us to be a cheerful giver.. However , He wants more of US. He desires ALL of us.

If we give from our pockets yet we "act" like pharisee's, or condemn othrs an tell them thy r cursed, or pretty much insult them or slap them..
just my 2 cents.
I personaly seeked the lord and He told me exactly how much to give and to whom i shud give.
I'ts not about the Law. it's about relationship an seeking Him for guidance. I try to give all of me an $$. it's hard but its something i work on. If I personaly give money, i feel like - ok God it's not enuf. I need to give myself( follow Him., Love and work on myself to be His servant). i've got a long way to go.. but I know for a fact that the Lord would never curse me or point a fingr at me.

[lola21st 2]

[mjtorrence 0]

[Cholette 0]

Had to "like" your post SisterNChrist. I couldn't have said it better myself. Praise God!!!

[dreamster 0]

ohh thats high praise by D,,terrizin the nieghbahood,