RnestseekR

SO, to use a Paul Harvey line, what's the rest of the story? I believe that absolutely God could have laid that on someone's heart - and that He absolutely loves you enough to "call you on it" ("it" being the thing you could not let go of). Were you able to let go? Are you still in the midst of it? How has your relationship with Jesus grown because of that morning? Thank you for your willingness to share and be transparent! BTW: I LOVE you little smiley "horrified". That's too funny! Have a fantastic day!

Thank you for sharing Butterfly. What a beautiful testimony to God's workings! DoveSolutions - Thank you for your response. I am curious as to how God uses different gifts in different scenarios so that I can be more sensitive (less dismissive?) when He desires to use me.

Dreamster - Are you sure you were logged in. I've thought that too, only to discover that I needed to log back in.

ispeak: At your conference or in other things that you have done, did you do any exercises or learning about how to pray for someone based off the prophectic words you received for someone. Last November, I went to hear a lady's/missionary testimony at our church. When she was done, there were several of us hanging around and we started to pray for one another. K., the missionary, "sees" images as she prays for people. Then, using the images, she prays with that person or over that person, depending on their comfort level. She engaged us in it too. She said to just quiet ourselves and invite the Holy Spirit to wash over us. She said to just blurt out whatever images we were seeing about the person we were praying for. I "saw" these images too. Like one woman, an aquaintance from church, I saw an oasis of water when praying for her. But I wasn't too sure about all of it, and did not know how to turn that into a prayer. But several others in the group saw water too. And the prayer was that she would be a source of refreshing, even sustainance to those around her. Then, the main leader also saw a woman with many breasts. And prayed over this woman's ability to nurture many children. At the time of the prayer, that made no sense. This woman was a single lady, although she was a teacher in middle school. When the prayer time was over, the woman being prayed for said that her neighbor's kids were frequently left alone and neglected. She had been taking care of them a lot and was currently asking the Lord what she should do about them: turn them in to the state or continue to take care of them just as she had been. It was one of the most powerful times of prayer for me. Anyways, just wondering if you had learned anything about using prophetic words to aid intercession. Thanks!

Jeanie - Thank you for the work you are doing! Your dreams make so much more sense to me now. I could not understand why God would give you all the political dreams that He does. But clearly, you are in a place where you can BOTH pray and DO. Blessings!

To all who have been faithful in prayer to me: Thank you! I wanted to release you from prayer - or at least ont his specific matter.:) I have received an overt answer and am moving forward in faith. As always, when god moves, He moves quickly and unexpectedly. Instead of returning to fullt-ime work outside the home, my Alzheimer's Grandmother, who I have been taking care of for 5 years, will be moving in with us permanently. Indeed, I will be working/nursing, but never dreamed in this way. More than that, I have been through a time of not feeling that God is answering my prayers. He has spoken so clearly in this; I am humbled. So more than having the answer to prayer about finances, I am so HAPPY to hear from God! Please offer up praises to Him along with me!!!

Jeanie - Is your pain better? If you had a dream about kidneys - it could be a kidney stone. They hurt SO MUCH as they are passing, but immediately after they pass, you have relief. It would make sense to get kidney stone after surgery - either from dehydration, or sometimes secondary side effect of meds. I am also wondering if you could have an ulcer. Ulcers are so common that meds to buffer the lining of the stomach are given any time (usually) a person undergoes anethesia. Plus, a lot of pain meds are irritating to the stomach lining - ibuprofen and some NSAIDS. Also, narcotics will cause constipation, in which it is sometimes hard to locate a specific spot of pain. Add to the limited mobility of having the back surgery and you are prime for constipation issues. Painful! PLEASE bring up the pain with the doctor - unless it is 100% resolved for 5 days. OK? With the ulcer, you want to watch for bleeding. You'll know because it will change the color and look of your stools. If the ulcer is in the stomach, it won't be bright red blood in your stools. It'll be dark streaking and it may make your stools not form right. Anyways, don't blow it off. In your situation, you have had enough strikes against you that it warrants letting your health care provider know about the pain.

Thank you for your prayers!

Resolution: Chalk this up to me being a psychiatric nurse and forgive me if I step on your toes. Are you suicidal currently? Even if you do not have a plan, or, as you say, "the willpower" to carry out a plan, are you having what is called "suicidal ideation", which means that you are definitely toying with the idea. Shoot straight, please. MP me if you want. RnestseekR

Connie and Delaine: Thank you so much for your prayers. I got a huge lift today from Tony Evans message, which talked about Break Thru, based on 1 Chron 14. I believe God will whisper to me the very specific plans He has for this time in our lives, I just need to drown out the lies I am hearing right now so I can hear his whisper instead. Thank you again! RnestseekR

Dear Prayer Warriors, intercessors and Conerned Family in Christ, Would you please lift up my husband and I as we are facing some serious financial issues. I am trying to figure out where/how and how much to return to full-time nursing. I still have little ones at home and have concerns about finding childcare, which is an issue even now as I am working part-time. My suband is looking for a different job, but is being reminded of past failures. I got a "kick-in-the-teeth" today even as I was on my knees praying about our situation. I am truly discouraged. Specifically, please pray for God's will to be revealed to me very clearly. I do not mind going back to work full-time, SO LONG AS THAT IS WHAT THE LORD WANTS. My husband works a commission-only job and we are not meeting our monthly financial needs. I am also fighting some resentment and bitterness - I know they have no place in my life, but I am fighting hard. Please pray for that. Thank your faithfulness in covering us in prayer.RnestseekR

Hello Dear Brother. Thank you for your honesty and humility about who you are. I have confided with you in the past about a major sin I have been dealing with but never confided what it was: for me, it is lack of self-control in my eating. Friend, the world doesn't necessarily see this as a problem, but you and I have felt the reprocussions! You remind me of my brother. He just tunred 30 and although he does not live with his parents, he does rent his home from me, has limited TRUE friendships and feels that he has so much left in life to live, but no one to share that with. You know I have been praying for you??? Because you remind me so much of my real brother. He too feels like an outcast because of the prophet personality that he has. No one understands this and he feels rejected from society too. You are loved and embraced here. Jesus sees you as one of value and worth. I am currently reading Jeremiah - LONG, dry book, but take solace from him: he was thrown in a cistern, purposely asked to make questionable financial decisions, held in prison and house arrests all for the sake of God. BUT GOD SPOKE TO HIM AS HE DID VERY FEW OTHERS. Just wanted you to know that you were seen today! Rnestseekr

No, not heard of Jan and Paul Crouch. I don't watch much TV, but I will have to look and see if we get TBN. Thanks for the recommendation! Trena

What is TBN?

Thanks for your input Connie. I think that it stands to repeat that some of this questioning of what the baptism of the Holy Spirit means is something the denominations cannot agree on. THAT'S OK. The apostle Paul addressed the same issue and finally said, The one thing that unites us all is that we are all baptized in the same spirit. At the end of this post, I have copied from another website, a more eloquent take on the two sides of the issues. Connie is not wrong for her understanding of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I am not wrong either. We are united by our belief in the saem Chirst, the same Father and the same holy Spirit. Her counsel is godly also. SO, where does that leave you? I would strongly suggest you get with the Pastor of your church. I sense strongly that there is a reason you want the baptism of the Holy Spirit and it isn't because you are worried about your salvation. I know that you have given me via MP your profession of faith. I think your pastor or a counselor, someone face-to-face, could very much so help you figure out what it is that you feel you are missing. This is likely a nudging of the Holy Spirit, so don't ignore it. Keep pressing on! The following is authored by Dr. John Bechtel and is excerpted from the website: www.christiananswers.net "It's ironic that Christians have argued so much about the baptism of the Spirit, when the apostle Paul used it as one of his main arguments to prove that we are all united in Christ! Some churches believe that the baptism of the Spirit is an experience different than initial salvation. They see it as a second experience that gives a person much greater spiritual power and boldness, and the ability to live a more victorious Christian life. Some groups teach that the baptism is accompanied by such signs as speaking in tongues. The Bible does not actually use the term "baptism of the Spirit" very often. John the Baptist predicted that Jesus would come and baptize with the Spirit and with fire (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33). In Acts 1:5, Jesus recalled John's words, and told His followers that they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from then. The spectacular events of the day of Pentecost ten days later seem to be the obvious fulfillment of His words (see Acts 2). The only other mention in Acts (11:16) refers back to Pentecost, explaining that Cornelius, the first Gentile convert, had an experience very similar to the Pentecost manifestations. While these passages make it clear that the believers in Acts 2 experienced a baptism of the Spirit, we do not find a clear explanation of what that baptism means. Nor do we know whether there were other works of the Spirit that were happening at the same time. The clearest explanation of the baptism appears in I Corinthians 12:13. Paul is dealing with a situation where the Corinthian church was splitting into factions over the issue of spiritual gifts. Overemphasis on certain spectacular gifts had led to the attitude that some people had the most desirable gifts, while others were deficient. In response, Paul exclaims, "We're all one! Don't divide up into cliques!" And to prove his point, he explains, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit" (I Corinthians 12:13). His main point? All believers share the reality of being baptized by the Spirit. What does it do? It makes us part of the body of Christ, the Church. When did it happen? If every believer has been baptized in the Spirit, then it must happen at the moment you accept Christ and become a Christian. Great Christians down through the years have often experienced dramatic encounters with God after salvation. There is no reason to deny that this is a genuine way that God works with His people. It is also true that equally devout, effective Christians have gone through life without such a "second work" of grace. We may use whatever words we want to describe our experiences with God. But it is most accurate to say that the Bible uses "baptism of the Spirit" to refer to one of the wonderful things that God does for us the instant we trust Christ and enter His family!" Author: Dr. John Bechtle.

I've got to admit I've been grappling with that very question in the last month. When I came to this website, I was exposed to some very charsimatic christians. In my readings, I have also come across statements like, "You haven't received the baptism of the Holy Spirit if you don't speak in tongues." I have taken it back to the Father many times over - I do not speak in tongues. Here's where I've come and what I beleive God is speaking to me. 1.) I KNOW that I KNOW that I KNOW that I am saved. 2.) I have a growing relationship with Chirst. 2.) I have a vibrant and active prayer life, in which I both speak to the father and He speaks to me. 3.) I have come to know when the Holy Spirit is giving me an impression, when He is speaking to me (not out loud, but when suddenly I am being given one of "His thoughts"). Here's what I am learning in regards to using the Power of the Spirit to help in my daily battles against the flesh. 1.) I need to work more on memorizing not just the scripture, but where it is found so that when I am in times of temptation, ministry, etc., The Holy Spirit can bring those verses to mind more readily. (I really stink at memorizing WHERE the scriptures are found. I can quote them, but not their references). This way I am using the sword of truth when it comes to the armor of God. 2.) The bible is God's Holy Word, and I beleive it is infalliable. BUT, when Jesus left the earth, He didn't say He was sending us the bible, He said He was sending us the Spirit. I believe that once we are saved, the Holy Spirit enters our hearts and minds. It is our job to open our hearts and mind to Him - for me, that happens when I read the bible and I align my life with the way God has outlined in the bible. When I find differences, I ask God to change me, mold me, make me new. These are functions of the Holy Spirit. Over time, I can see new fruits of the spirit in my life (gentleness, patience, kindness, love, joy, peace, etc.) I know that I am connected to the vine because if I were not, I would not be bearing these fruits of the spirit. The one fruit of the spirit that is coming into blossom for me, but is still quite immature in certain areas of my life (namely, me eating habits) is the spirit of self-control. And it's quite a paradox. I give God my control so that I can be given back His spirit of self-control. So all that said, how do you know you do not have the baptsim of the Holy Spirit? And, conversely, how do you know that you have had the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? Jesus says in the gospel of John 15:5, " I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." To ME, that says that I need to be reflecting his likeness. I cannot do that on my own. I've got to stay plugged in to Jesus. I do that through reading the bible every day, changing my habits and lifestyle so that my thoughts are pointed back to him (christian radio station, christian books - both fiction and non-fiction, etc.), prayer, and plugging in to my christian community through church and small group, but not isolating myself from the world. I still do "worldly activites" like PTA, Girlscouts. But when I do those things I am more focused on being salt and spreading God's love. In other words, I am trying to be an influence on them, not them an influence on me. Sorry - I got winded. Reflect on what I've said. Ask the Spirit for discernment and guidance in what it is that you feel that you are missing in your life and what it is the He would like to fill you up with.

Resolution, I was talking about our own personal sin too. I am sorry this no magic number. Keeping pressing. Don't give up. I have also found in my own personal prayer life that sometimes the unanswered prayers are about God building my faith. Do I REALLY trust Him to make good on all that He says He will in the bible. Am I willing to invest the time to seek out the answers in the bible to see what God's mind is on the matter. Keep searching! Keep grasping for God! Keep asking. Remember Matthew: Ask, Seek, Knock. You've definitely done the asking. What about the seeking and knocking? And I can tell you that I have definitely done all 3 and STILL not had an answer to my prayer. After waiting and waiting, I finally got an answer and it was NO. I was devastated. It finally came down to a matter of trusting God to be the Director of my life, believing that He knows better than me. Sometimes, I still fall prey to the idea that I know better than He does. How else can we encourage you? I can feel your desperation. So how can we help share the love of Christ with you and impart his peace to you? I have paused here a minute to pray for you just now. What else can we do to encourage you to continue to run the race?

This comes from the book THE PRAYER MATRIX written by David Jeremiah. If you are unfamiliar with this pastor's teachings, he is on many christian radio stations with a program called Turning Point. If you are wrong, God says no. If the timing is wrong, God says, go slow. If the motive is wrong, God says grow. If you are right, the timing is right and the motive is right, God says GO! Meaning somtimes we ask for things that are not good for us, so God says NO. Sometimes, we want something right now, (the example the book uses is the 15 y/o who prays for a motorcycle), but we aren't ready to handle what we've asked for, so He says to wait. Sometimes we want something - maybe vengence on our enemies, or to not have to be patient for something, or to win the lottery, when what Christ wants is our heart focused on the kingdom. So we have to grow in Christ (meaning, get-to-know Him through the bible, learning to pray, praticing spritual disciplines, etc.) so we get our priorities the same as Christ. If all these things fall into alignment, God says GO! Allow me to suggest one other thing: fasting. Purely for spiritual reasons, not cosmetic. There are times when God does not answer a prayer because He simply wants to search our hearts out before responding. Fasting is also good for repenting of sins and humbling ourselves before our God. It should not be done, though, to force God's hand to move. It isn't a hunger strike. You still may get a NO from God, at which point, no matter how hard is to accept, you have to trust his wisdom and answer. I have googled "biblical fasting" and found some great websites on it, if you are curious. Also, fasting is a great way to draw close to God. There are lots of examples in the bible and many reasons for each of those fasts. Also, Tony Evans, another Dallas-based pastor who's on the radio under the praogram called The Alternative or The Urban Alternative, has a book out by fasting that I have found in the library. Just some thoughts!

Does anyone have or has anyone read either of the following two books: Dreams and Visions by Joe Ibojie Prophets Dictionary by Paula Price Just looking for some general information on them: Are the readable? Are they biblical? Current? Useful? etc. Thanks!

This is purely a scientific point: Has she started any new medications or changed/increased her exercise lately. Medications can definitely affect your sleep stages and therefore time spent in dreaming. Overall, has her sleep pattern changed as well as her dream pattern, i.e., is she sleeping harder or lighter or less amount of time? Yes, it could also be that God wants to take away the one form of communication to cause her to explore other ways of experiencing and hearing God. You might ask what her daily scripture reading time has been like. Has every passage she has turned to or every devotion she's come across or every sermon lately been "hitting the nail on the head" or have NONE of them been stirring her? Asking her these kinds of questions might allow her to do some closer self-inspection and she'll be able to figure out (w/ God's guidance, of course) whether the no-dreams thing is OK or not.

Dreamer: I have just come out of a time of God being "quiet". He wasn't quiet in all areas, but when it came to making MAJOR DECISIONS (job changes, schedule changes, tragedy, etc.) He seemed to be. I still had His peace, in doing my quiet times and bible studies, the Spirit still stirred me and convicted me, but when I specifically said, God, I need Your answer for this problem or this change, I got what seemed like nothing. Now that I am out of that stage - or at least I think I am - I can SO clearly see that this was a stage of growing my faith. Was I willing to take the time to sink my teeth into scripture, use my pastors as sounding boards/counseling and make a Godly decision, even when I didn't get the "close to God feeling?" so that I knew I'd done the right thing. I yearned so much to see God in a pillar of fire like the Isrealites did. Yet, I have so much more FAITH now. And I know my scripture a whole lot better too! In hindsight, I also believe that God was still being God: had of I gotten way off track, He would have spoken. See if this isn't a testing of your faith and will you still follow even if He's only whispering? Will you continue to pray, even if buy the enemies lie that "Maybe God's not listening today." They are lies. They are based on feelings. You FEEL that God is quiet. Learn to look for other ways that He speaks: wise chrisitan counsel, scripture, themes, nature, etc. None the less, it can be discouraging to fight the enemy all the time. Use the sword of truth and rpeat your scripture back: God is in your corner! Sending encouragement your way!

Good morning. Just wanted to share with you all what God has done for me and my grandmother, to whom I am so close! I had a dream a couple of weeks ago that I was at my grandmother's old house. Running up the middle of the house was an airshaft, like AC shafts that run under the floors, but it ran straight across, no branching off or anything. I heard some commotion and realized that there were these 2 red, puffed up birds. They seemed silly or dumb to me. I thought they were "dough-dough birds". (Don't know if there is such a thing or not). When the "workers" were building the house, they did not realize that the birds had gotten in there and the workers had sealed the end of the airshaft. The I saw a hand come down from the sky and take the cap off the end of the airshaft. The birds were taken out. The workers came and sealed back up the sheet metal of the air vent. I completely forgot I had had the dream until I was on my way the next day to take care of Grandma and the same clouds I had seen in an earlier part of the above dream I saw in the real life sky as I was driving. Immediately, I knew that seeing Grandma's house represented her and the airshaft her spine. But I had NO IDEA what the 2 birds represented. I told my mom about it and told her to pray that "God would take the 2 red, puffy birds out of Grandma's back". Then, yesterday, I was in prayer and it suddenly hit me: 2 RED, PUFFY birds=INFLAMMATION! DUH! So here's a copy of the e-mail I wrote to my mom yesterday, Monday, 09/15: "I have been in prayer a great deal this morning. I had the MOST POWERFUL experience of filling of the Holy Spirit last night. AMAZING!!! Would desperately LOVE to get that back again today! Anyways, as I was praying just now (while cleaning of all things), I had a total revelation about the dream of Grandma's house w/ the AC duct and the red puffed-up birds running up and down the center shaft. The birds represent 2 areas of INFLAMMATION!!!! So obvious I couldn't see it! Red, puffy birds. Inflammation is manifested as REDNESS when the capillaries expand to allow more blood to circulate to the problemed area. The extra fluid (PUFFINESS) and such is secondary to the capillaries expanding. While the capillaries bring antibodies and white blood cells and other nutrients to heal, they also bring fluid (aka Plasma) since that's what the blood cells and nutrients float in. So, initially, inflammation is a helpful mechanism in the body, but when it gets out of control or continues for too long, it can be a bad thing. The puffiness causes swelling which cuts off additional blood supply and also pain as it causes pressure on nearby nerves. Which is why initially you HEAT a sprain (to promote the blood flow) but then ICE, to get rid of the swelling. ANYWAYS, it seems that the antiinflammatory that they have given Grandma is helpful. But if the rest of my dream is correct, there are 2 areas of inflammation - so keep a second area on the radar!!!! I know you must think I am NUTS, but after Friday's events and dream, and then the sudden light going on while in prayer today, I believe even more that there is a second area of inflammation that might be helped by patches - or even the TENS unit, but the TENS unit isn't really for inflammation, it's an electrical wave passed through the skin (transdermal electrical nerve stimulation is what it stands for). The second area of inflammation may have already been healed ???? since this dream is now so old, but I don't think so. I think there's a second one either active currently or will become active. Has ice helped Grandma at all???? DUH! is all I have to say. How many years of nursing practice and I didn't get that redness and puffiness in the back would be inflammation!" (End of e-mail) Then this morning, 09/16, Tuesday, she (my mom) writes back to me: "Well Trena my child of wonder and how I do love you...The second inflamation hit today. The therapist will be here today and I am ordering the inflamination pads as it helped on Saturday and it helped yesterday AM. Mom was in severe pain this morning. I gave her 2 pain pills and put high heat on her back just to allievate a bit of pain. I am hopeful it will knock her out until the therapist is here. The injections will be for imflamination but can not start on them until October 3 so I am hopeful the pads applied daily will be of benefit. Should I have her take anything for imflammation? She can not take alieve it tears her stomach up." (end of e-mail) And the silliness, of course, was me in the birds. What a dough-dough I feel like not have understood what the birds represented. I have been a registered nurse for almost 11 years now! God has SUCH a sense of humor and I believe He's been laughing at/with me for 2 weeks now!:) I LOVE a sense of humor! Please take a moment and offer PRAIE and GLORY to God. I KNOW that He sees my Grandma, has heard her prayer and has sent us this knowledge so we can get her pain under control. I believe The Father meant this to be an encouragement to my Grandmother and that when we get a hold on this inflammation, she will be healed completely and will not have any more back problems. And what an encouragement to me! I see how God saw and took care of my Grandmother. Will He not also see and take care of me!?! May your faith be encouraged and renewed today! God sees you, loves you and tends to you! Draw close to him! Thank you, Jesus!

On Wednesday night of this week, I dreamed that a black truck was coming at me with great speed, just as it was to hit me, it dissipated. Then a white truck came at me. Again, just as it was about to hit me, it dissipated. Finally, a red truck - same scenario. I did not post the dream, I felt like there was a literal interpretation. Needless to say, I prayed for protection while driving all day on Thursday and was extra cautious, especially at stoplights! Thursday passed but the dream did not, so I thought perhaps I had been protected since the scenario never evolved. But last night (Friday), I had to go to a memorial garden dedication for godson who passed away the end of June in a nearby town. I was NOT going to miss it, despite some bad weather in the area. I left early to allow plenty of time. Little did I know, there were tornadoes throughout the entire metro. Believe me, had I known, we would not have gone. Anyways, just as I was getting ready to cross the Missouri River on a major highway, I hit flash flooding. There was no where to go - cement barracades on my R (I was in the far L lane), flooding waters everywhere, and I could not see out my windshield. When I hit the flood waters, my engine stalled. I quickly freaked - the engine would not start! I tried to call 9-1-1 but could not get through - I imagine b/c of the weather of the night. Then, looking into my rearview mirror was the black truck I had seen in my dreams. I really started to freak. I had my 3 kids in the car with me. The black truck had no way of knowing that I was not on the median (there was no median going onto the bridge), that I was stoppped - not just going to slow - and that they were about to hit the same flashflooding that I'd hit. Even if they realized all this, could they keep control of their truck and not hydroplane? I told my kids to brace themselves that we were going to be hit . . . and just as I got ready to say the word "now", the truck regained control and moved over a lane. Then, true to my dream, the white truck came within another minute. I told my kids the same thing and just as I was sure there was going to be impact, the truck came to a halt and went around us. I started looking for the red truck, knowing it was coming. It did. She stopped. This was the end of my dream so I thought I'd better get some help. I got out of my vehicle. The flood waters had receded and were now only over the tops of my feet. I flagged the driver down and asked her to push be across 3 lanes of traffic to the median on the right. She agreed. When her truck made contact with my vehicle, I tried one more time and my vehicle started!!! I then made it across the bridge. I had moved into the R lane and gone another 100 feet and hit flood waters again! This time, though, the waters were not so high and left me with some momentum when my engine stalled. I was able to coast onto the median, wait a while and my vehicle finally started. I only missed the first half of one song of my the memorial/garden dedication. I thank God for his protection over me and my 3 kids. I thank the Holy Spirit for the dream, I stayed much more calm (not as calm as I should have - call me Peter!), and didn't make a rash decision like pulling my kids out into the flood waters. I thank Jesus for His love for me! May God receive the highest glory!!! I cannot put into words the closeness I feel to Jesus. Indeed, if he clothes the lillies of the field and feeds the birds in the air, will He not take care of me also!?!

Hello Forum. I recognize that not all who are given dreams have a gift of prophecy. But for those who do have the gift of prophecy, how is that gift being plugged in to your local body? Can you share some examples with us? Specifically, how is the Lord using the gift of prophecy to get the Word of God out to unbelievers? In other words, how is 1 Corithians 14:24 "But if all prophesy, and an unbeleiver or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all." Reading verse 23 before it puts the verse into context, that if the whole church comes together and an unbeliever walks in, the purpose of the prophecy is to make a believer out of 'em. Can you also give the context or flavoring of your church in your examples - that is, are you in a reserved body or a "charasmatic" body, a growing church, a small church, etc. No right or wrong answers here. Just wanting to see how God is working in and through you to bring unbelievers to Him!

How have things been at work?