Virtuous

Mia Sherwood wrote:

That's what I thought too. But the sheet that they slept with was symbolic of that too.

...interesting...

When I read this dream I thought, "Almost like Boaz and Ruth; but she slept at his feet though."

I know this is off subject. Maybe I should have used the hijacked emoticon, but D; is there a reason you always make two different post back to back instead of including it all in one? Just curious...

Sounds like the Samuel and Eli experience in I Samuel 3 to me. It’s when God was calling Samuel and he thought it was Eli (I believe it sounded like Eli calling him). Every time Samuel heard his name, he ran to Eli asking him what he wanted. Eli kept telling him to go back and lay down because he wasn’t calling him. I think it was the third time when Samuel went to Eli that Eli knew that the Lord was calling him and told Him to answer because it was the Lord calling him.

One night I was in prayer in my room. I had closed the door and was on my knees at the side of my bed. I heard, “Virtuous (my real name was spoken), open the door”. It was in my supervisors voice. I just brushed it off and kept praying. After I was done, I called one of the saints at church and told him what happened. He asked me if I opened the door and I told him no. He told me I should have because it was the Lord speaking to me. He said sometimes the Lord uses an audible voice we are familiar with to speak to us especially when He is teaching us to hear Him (this was the first time I had ever heard him audibly). In my case he used my supervisor (authority) to speak to me and I heard it just as clear. He is the one who reminded me of Samuel and Eli. That’s why Samuel kept running to Eli when he heard his name being called. I really believe it sounded like Eli and the Lord was training him.

I agree with HisLightbeam. Teach him to answer. But first, be sure it was the spirit of the Lord. I think that’s the reason you were there to witness it. Just as Eli recognized it was the Lord calling Samuel, you will be able to recognize it as well.

Delightful Soul,
I wasn’t going to say anything, other than what I already have, but after reading one of your most recent post, I feel I should. I KNOW exactly what you’re speaking about concerning the tithes and the leaders. First let me say that I don’t think MJ (not saying that you felt/feel she is doing this) was ill-speaking against her Pastor. I think she is just expressing what happened to her and how she felt about it which is totally understandable.

However, what you’re saying is true about the scripture. It IS speaking of leaders and I had to learn that the HARD way. I wasn’t doing it on purpose but I just didn’t know. I was so hurt behind something that happened between me, my Pastor, and a couple other saints that I talked about it to anyone who would listen. Well, not anyone. But I talked to family about it… It hurt SOOOOOOO bad. I told God I was LEAVING and I meant every word I said. He said, “You ain’t (yep that’s the word He used) going nowhere. You’re going to sit there and you’re going to get through this.” [MJ, I’m not saying that’s what you should do. You have to know what God is telling you. I’m just using myself as an example.] I should’ve gone into prayer about the situation and given it over to God because I KNEW I didn’t do anything wrong. Once I did that, God told me HE was going to vindicate me. I began to rest in Him, stayed in church because I was too afraid to go anywhere else after He said I couldn’t (yep I had an attitude about it at first and still “plotting” to leave), and after awhile, the hurt and the anger was gone. But it took God to show me that I HAD to go through that. I didn’t understand it at the time, but I do now. Growth and maturity followed in so many areas. Do I still feel that my Pastor was wrong? Yes. Did I see God’s hand move in the situation? Yes. Not only with my Pastor but with me as well. One of the things He revealed to me was that I HAD my Pastor on the pedestal where He belonged. My Pastor makes decisions that I don’t agree with and sometimes things are said during service that I don’t agree with (no one is ALWAYS operating in the spirit) and I HAVE to take it to God because if I don’t, I’ll take it somewhere else and start a gossip session. It is a MUST that we pray for our leaders as well. We have to keep them lifted up in prayer. I did that with the situation I told you about earlier and it caused a couple of my family members not to even want to visit my church because of it. I could’ve cost my family their very lives by telling them what I went through during that time (because I was hurt and just didn’t understand what was going on) and it was a TEST FOR ME to make and mold me. Tell God on your Pastor and allow Him to deal with him/her. So we DO have to be careful about that.

As far as the tithing goes, there have been deep discussions on this very topic on this site. You are absolutely right. Some of the things you mentioned, I also mentioned in the other thread that was started before I became a member. Everything you have said about tithing, curses, and grace is the truth. Those are hard facts to swallow. It’s tight but it’s right. There are many who will not agree because they want to do away with the Old Testament because it is under the law. The Old Testament is rough and it’s because sin was brought into the world. When God spoke creation into being, there was NO SIN – Period. What Jesus did for us, already was, in the beginning. When Jesus died, he took all of our sin to the cross, saving us from death because of our sins. Now, we don’t die BECAUSE of our sins. The grace of God when He sent Jesus saved us from that. We can die IN our sin if we don’t repent. What would the NT be without the OT? Would there even be a NT?

Grace is a beautiful thing and it IS taken for granted. We can’t use it to justify, sugar coat or pamper. We have to be taught the unadulterated word of God. Yep…HOLINESS. I agree with you 100%. I feel just as strongly as you feel about this. I chose to not go into the depth that you did because I did that in the other thread and it went the same way this one is going.

"Grace is there for mistakes and for mercy when we fail but when we have knowlege we are accountable to follow His word and not use grace as an excuse to sin.
I really pray that the grace message be preached with balance and not used to water down the convicting power of the word."

I don’t think this could’ve been said better.

I do believe that tithing/giving comes from the heart and a person is led by the Lord on what and where to give. He has given us the minimum already when it comes to tithing. He specifically asks for 10% of all of our increase - that’s a given. But as for me, He has instructed me to give more than 10%. My Pastor didn’t tell me, a Prophet didn’t bring me a prophecy telling me – God told me Himself what I should tithe. I give in the offering (above my tithes) what I want/desire to give and sometimes He tells me what to give. It’s not about the money. Come on now, we’re talking about God here. He who lives where the streets are made of gold. It’s my obedience. He said it’s about the obedience and not the sacrifice.

Yes tithing IS actually more than money/income. It has to be. That’s why I believe it says “of INCREASE” and not wages. Give of yourself through talents, time, love, and all the other things expressed to the Pharisees when they were ONLY carefully giving money. The harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few.

I don’t think ANY of us want to offend the other and we all have our thoughts about things. We’re not going to always agree but I think the most important thing to remember is that we need to speak things in love and hope and pray it is taken in the spirit of love.

----As I was getting ready to post this, I saw where lola21st posted and I just wanted to chime in.

I believe all that you have said as well because what you speak about is happening every day. We have to be careful because God warned us of false prophets/teaching. There is this one televangelist that a co-worker of mine was telling me about who was coming to a local area that she was going to see. My sister had just mentioned this person to me the night before. I had never heard of this person. I was like, hmm. But as my co-worker began to go into more detail about this person and the ministry, something just didn’t sit well with me. She said this person was sending letters asking for a certain amount of money and for her to do certain things with items sent to her. Well, she didn’t get the items. I didn’t say anything to either of them about it. I did a search on-line and the entire first page of the search was allegations brought up against the ministry. It is said that this person would have conferences and ask the people to fill out visitor/information cards. The cards are taken up before service and the spouse of this person would transmit the information to this person about the people through an earpiece this person was wearing. I didn’t say anything to my co-worker or my sister. My co-worker went to the conference and I asked her how it was. She told me it was powerful and she and the young lady who went with her were called out and given a word. I asked her to tell me everything that happened. Just as the search said, it happened. They were asked to fill out information cards and they were taken up before the service. One of the things asked is if there was sickness in the body and if they had a prayer request. Everything she and her friend put on the card, this person spoke. I sent her the information I found and let her decide for herself. I did the same with my sister. I didn’t bash the person or anything, but I did pray for this person AND the people who are following this person.

We tithe from the heart and God knows a person who is just giving 10% in money from who his giving 10% with his heart. The amount on the line on the offering envelope doesn't determine a tither. God sees the HEART of man.

Whatcha say, whatcha say, What-you-say!!!! You got that right. Just ask the Shunamite(sp) woman who gave her last mite. HEY, God. Glory! Keep in mind this woman is alive and well today in some shape, form or fashion. I know because I have been her at times in giving. THAT’S WHY what Cholette said about the amount on the line on the offering envelope is soooooooo true! Uh, oh...!!!

It just seems strange that this type of stove would be used in your dream and you know nothing about it or even seen one for that matter. Then you loved it. So I just thought that maybe it could be something “about” the stove.

But knowing you, it will all come together for you in a flash...

The only reason I asked is because I was wondering if there was a reason an old cast iron stove was used in your dream. Maybe it speaks of something. I grew up in the house with my grandparents and they had one. NOTHING as glamourous and beautiful, or even big, like the one in the picture though.

Not just anybody would have been able to use one...just ask "Mista" on the Color Purple...

The one in your dream. The types of stove.

Do you know anything about those stoves?

dreamster wrote:

i didnt take outta christmas,, i jus hate typeing so i shrunk him, in2 xmas, it wood be illogikal 4 me asa beleaver 2 remove the one ,, i beleave in, ya;ll kno i rite short hand, this has been a ova sumthang very minor, ..i hope im klear on this,

Jesus didn’t come to abolish the law. He came to fulfill it. No, we are no longer under the law but under grace which is good because if we were under the law, we would all be dead. Not just because of not being tithers, but everything else as well. It’s the principle of tithing just as it is the principle of the law. God fulfilled the law when He died because that’s what the law stated should’ve happened. That’s what He fulfilled. He fulfilled DEATH of the law for our sins. You have to look at what the law was about things. He didn’t get rid of (abolish) the law of the thing; He DIED to fulfill the results of what was/is suppose to happen of not doing it. Where do you think we would all be if we died under the curse of the law? We’d go straight to hell. His death to fulfill the law is more for our spiritual being because we are not perfect.

Yes, tithes were before the law. If it was before the law, and if we look at we are no longer under the law, tithing shouldn’t be included if it was before the law. Are we not suppose to follow the law because we are under grace? Is the law fulfilled or is it just that the law of tithing fulfilled? Tithing was after the law as well. The Pharisees tithed in the New Testament. It’s mentioned in one of the Gospels that I know of. I think it’s Luke? They were actually getting scolded because they made sure they tithed but they weren’t doing any of the other things toward/with/for the people. They were told it was good to tithe but don’t’ forget to do those other things too.

I believe the curse of the law came along with the curse of the ground when Adam and Eve sinned. There is no way Adam and Eve (in their sin) could’ve stood on a holy ground so God HAD to curse the ground. There’s no way a holy people (which God knew He was going to send His Son to save) could’ve stood up without a hope of freedom of living under this curse so He had to send Jesus to fulfill the law that would put us under grace. We couldn’t have made it because we are a sinful people therefore we need grace to protect us from the law. The law is still there.

People are not looking at the principles or even being taught the principles of tithing. THAT’S the problem. We all talk about putting God first in every area of our lives. ..UNLESS money is involved. I don’t tithe because I’m afraid of being cursed with a curse. I tithe to honor God with the first fruit (the best) of my income because it is He who gives me power to get wealth and because I love Him. I do it out of obedience.

Cholette is right. God is NOT GOING TO MAKE you give. He doesn’t have to. For every person who won’t give; there’s one or MORE who will willingly give.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dreamster wrote:

um V in the land of D we hav things called hot cross buns,, they r a bun that has an X on them,, notta t,, but everyone knows wat its all about ,,they dont feel ther leaving jesus outta easter, ,,i jus wantd 2 share that,, B/D,, on vacation,,

If it makes you and them sleep better...oh, well; have at it. But it still remains with me that the "X" is just a way to remove Christ from Christmas. Just like everything else...

lola21st wrote:

Deborah wrote:

Congrats, D! Um Lola, you wrote:

I also refuse to say "Happy Holidays", I say Merry Christmas.

Did you know "Holiday" comes from "Holy Day?" Once I learned that, I didn't mind hearing people tell me to have a happy holy day.

(apologies to the man of the thread!)

Hi Deborah!

Thanks, yes I am aware of the origin of "Holiday" and I can appreciate what you’re saying. The thing is that those that extend the greeting typically don't know that this is the case; more often than not they extend the greeting as a symbol of tolerance for the three celebrations taking place during this time (Christmas, Hanukah, and Kwanzaa - actually four if Ramadan falls during this period)...it's intended as a way of greeting without potentially offending someone who doesn't celebrate the holiday that would've been extended. Companies and schools will often use this greeting to avoid conflict (though as stated in my earlier post, schools have taken this one step further to refer to this period with even more generic names ). And then you have people who use the term because they are not religious and don't want to recognize a holy day at all...I don't want to be associated with this latter group and I do know which Holy Day I'm celebrating so when extending greetings I say Merry Christmas, even if the person I'm talking to isn't Christian. I don't do it to be self-righteous nor do I do it to be mean spirited, I do it because it's what I do - I’m a Christian, I celebrate Christmas – it’s that simple. When around my Jewish friends for example, I say Merry Christmas, they say Happy Hanukah and it's done, the holiday greetings are exchanged. (This wasn’t always in the case in my experience, especially back in the Northeast where I’m originally from.) My feeling about this is strong because whether people like it or not, the reason we have vacation time, special concerts and performances, tv specials, decorations in the mall and at home, Santa for the kids, mistletoe, candy cane, (special and exceptionally good) chocolate ( ), etc. during this period is because of Jesus’ birth. These things are all offshoots of our celebration of it so to reach a point where we shut out the reason for the season in both large and small ways is inappropriate. Even using ‘Merry Xmas’ as benign as it is, is another way of watering the whole season down which is why Cholette and I harassed Dreamster for his shorthand…(D, I know this wasn’t your intent, please don’t take offense at this statement)…not to mention, it provided an opportunity to Dreamster that couldn’t be passed up…


I hope I don't come across like a vigilante, it's just that there is a growing intolerance for anything religious (unless it's Buddhist, New Age, or Wicca) and a growing intolerance for everything Christian in the SF Bay Area which is where I live. Cholette also lives in California and I imagine she experiences the same thing in her region. I've heard more than once recently that in Silicon Valley only 6-10% of the population considers themselves religious and/or attends church So that means that 90% + of the population here are not yet saved. (What a great opportunity for missions, don’t you think?) For me, it's a small but important gesture to say Merry Christmas. People know where I stand and it potentially offers an opportunity to talk about Jesus.

Ok, I’m stepping down from my now and am unhijacking the thread….carry on with the

Ditto, I totally agree with you.

To add my . The "X" being used is NOT a cross. It's an "X". A cross is made like a "t". This is just another form of deception to justify removing Christ out of Christmas. I don’t care what symbol or letter is put there…it boils down to the same outcome – Christ has been removed.

AND…Congratulations, Dreamster. Only you…only you!

I think you need to know ALL about it before you make a committment.

How much do you know about this youth group? They may think you are aware of "something" and you're not.

Tattoos symbolize commitment...something you've made permanent. Do you feel you just want to only "help out" with this youth group and not take on a more permanent commitment to them? The young girl said the tattoo meant you are part of the team (permanent).

Ahh, Cholette. These two verses of scripture was a REAL EYE OPENER for me. And this was just last week! I’m believing God for my husband and just like you, I’ve had a lot of Ishmael’s come through. I even fell for one of them (remember X? – yeah, right). All of my dreams and desires, especially concerning my mate, are covenants from God. When I read verse 21 I was like, yep, that’s it. If I want the life I know God has made a covenant with me about, it has to be with “who”, “what”, “where”, “how” and “when” by God’s design. He only has to honor HIS WORD, HIS WAY, and HIS TIMING. All it is, is His Will for our lives coming forth.

When God made the covenant with Abraham, He said Sarah (who) would bear/give birth (how) to a son (what). He didn’t make this covenant until after Abraham had gone unto the land God had shown him when He told him to leave the country and his father’s house (where) and told him it would be this time next year (when).
If you notice, a lot of time God told whoever He was speaking to at the time to go over “there” because “there” He had already prepared what He purposed! We have to make sure we are in the right place. I don’t think Abraham and Sarah would have had Isaac had they not left the country/Abrahams fathers house…same with us. We may not have to leave the country, but we have a “there”.

This is why I feel so strongly about God’s Will and the covenants He makes with us. He’s going to make it and give specific instructions on how to get there. Just thinking about it makes me want to shout!

I was reading about the promises and covenants of God. The ones I’ve read so far, when He made a covenant, He gave a sign to the one He made a covenant with that every time they saw it, they would be reminded of the covenant. About a month ago, I was talking to the Lord and I told Him about the signs He gave to those so that every time they saw it, it would remind them of the covenant He made with them. I told Him I know that He is faithful to His word and He would do what He said He would do in my life. I asked Him if He would send me a sign of the covenant that every time I saw it, I will remember the covenants He’s made with me. Thanksgiving, He told me He was about to pour out the blessings He promised me. He told me that every time I see RAIN (sign of the covenant) to start praising Him! Hallelujah! Yes, Lord!

My pastors have released me with a blessing.

THAT'S how it should be. Congratulations!

All I can say is that if we want it "right", we MUST do it the way God wants it done.

This is exactly what happened with Abraham and Sarah. Sarah gave her maidservant to Abraham to have a child with. They didn’t do it “right”. They tried to help God out. Although, God blessed Ishmael because of Abraham’s prayers for him, God said,

“And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.” (Genesis 17:20-21)

The covenant God has made with us concerning our mates will be established with the mate He has chosen for us. That’s the only way it’s going to be “right” and done the way God wants it done.

You know, God was saying, Okay Abraham. I’ve heard your prayer about your son and I’m going to bless him because he is your seed. But look, my covenant that I made with you will be established with Isaac. The seed I promised you that you and your wife Sarah was going to have.

But, Agghhhhhhhhhh…I understand the waiting…….Agggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh!

I’ve been praying and believing that my children will be saved and filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues before this year is out. It happened for with my oldest son (13 at the time) in June. It happened for BOTH my girls (10 and 8) last night during prayer meeting! I honestly believe my youngest child (he’s 3) was touched as well. He’s next!

Along with my girls, 3 of my nieces, ages 10, 9, and 6 were also filled. Pastor told my 10 year old daughter to go pray with another one of the youth who is 8, and she was filled too!

God is good. He is really raising up the youth in our church. Prophecy has gone forth over our youth ALL year long and God has been faithful to His word! Thank you Jesus.
Please keep them in your prayers because these are the next generation of pastors, ministers, teachers, bishops, apostles, prophets, etc.

To God be the glory for the things He has done!!!!!!!!!!

Here are some reference scriptures:
Exodus 29:7
Leviticus 8:12
Leviticus 21:10
I Samuel 10:1
II Kings 9:3
II Kings 9:6

If I'm not mistaken, those who were being anointed to be Kings were the ones who had oil poured on their heads.

Oh, my...

Yes. I agree with Cholette. You have to be careful when receiving prophecy. It comes to confirm what you already know.